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#3105830 04/13/21 04:26 PM
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Hi everybody,

I am not sure if this is the correct forum to post this in so please excuse me if I made a mistake.
Currently I'm in the market for a new piano. A silent piano and more specifically a Kawai K300 ATX 3.
The millenium III action is amazing.
I have some concerns about the silent part.

I have read the Kawai CA 79/99 issues and a Kawai K series silent piano is basically an accoustic piano with an integrated CA series.

Does this mean that every problem also occurs on the accoustic piano's?
Or is the software somewhat different?

Stax #3105845 04/13/21 05:01 PM
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A lot of the Kawai problems have been down to the keyboards of the perticular piano. This will not affect your keyboard in the same way. Of late, Kawai quality seems to have improved, but the acoustic forum would also be a good place to sound out. ther will be those who've acquired this imnstrument and will be able to help.


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Stax #3105855 04/13/21 05:28 PM
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What kind of problems do you mean?

I don't think an ATX3 is basically an acoustic piano with an integrated CA series. When it comes to samples etc, yes, but the atx uses optical sensors on (obviously) a real upright action, which is all quite different from the CA series, which uses rubber contact sensors on a grand imitation action.

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Sample wise and digital function ATX3 is exactly like a NV5 or a CA98.

I have a K200 ATX3 and love it. But I’m not to fond of the internal samples so I use it with my computer and virtual pianos. Just as I did with my Yamaha p-515.

I have no issues with it... other stuff like the action needed some initial regulation/prepping to get it good was needed but this is same for al acoustic pianos.

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I have a K300 ATX3 and my opinion on the ATX3 system is the same as Boboulus'. Encountered no issues whatsoever. I almost exclusively use VSTi's though. Very happy with this instrument.


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Originally Posted by U3piano
What kind of problems do you mean?

In the CA79/CA99 owners topic there is a list with issues.
They have sended Kawai a letter regarding the issues.
Here is the link.
Link to issues

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Originally Posted by Boboulus
Sample wise and digital function ATX3 is exactly like a NV5 or a CA98.

I have a K200 ATX3 and love it. But I’m not to fond of the internal samples so I use it with my computer and virtual pianos. Just as I did with my Yamaha p-515.

I have no issues with it... other stuff like the action needed some initial regulation/prepping to get it good was needed but this is same for al acoustic pianos.

I have played the Yamaha B2 SC2 and the sounds are much more impressive then the Kawai sounds.
The Binaural recordings really are amazing.

Personally I like the action better from Kawai. Yamaha is much more heavy.
I'm tending towards the Yamaha because of the software problems and I don't like the idea that I have to fiddle with VST's.

PS: I only "know" 1 person with a k200 ATX3. And that is piano.bobo I follow on instagram. Is that you perhaps? Name sounds the same.

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Originally Posted by Boboulus
Sample wise and digital function ATX3 is exactly like a NV5 or a CA98. ...

FWIW: my wife bought an NV5 one year ago. She has played piano for about 10 years when she was young and was torn between an hybrid piano and an e-piano with a good action. I am an absolute beginner. It is possible that the NV5 firmware (and thus, following Boboulus, that of the ATX3) suffers from some of the issues that affect the CA79/CA99 series: the backlight of the display stays on in sleep mode, for example. What I can say is that, during the last year, we have played the NV5 in average 1-1.5 hours per day and, so far, we are very pleased with the device. The mayor criticism that I have is that the front feet of the NV5 are not adjustable. This is something that I find very annoying because floors are typically not perfectly level.

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Originally Posted by Stax
Originally Posted by Boboulus
Sample wise and digital function ATX3 is exactly like a NV5 or a CA98.

I have a K200 ATX3 and love it. But I’m not to fond of the internal samples so I use it with my computer and virtual pianos. Just as I did with my Yamaha p-515.

I have no issues with it... other stuff like the action needed some initial regulation/prepping to get it good was needed but this is same for al acoustic pianos.

I have played the Yamaha B2 SC2 and the sounds are much more impressive then the Kawai sounds.
The Binaural recordings really are amazing.

Personally I like the action better from Kawai. Yamaha is much more heavy.
I'm tending towards the Yamaha because of the software problems and I don't like the idea that I have to fiddle with VST's.

PS: I only "know" 1 person with a k200 ATX3. And that is piano.bobo I follow on instagram. Is that you perhaps? Name sounds the same.

Hahah wow yes I’m Pino.bobo on Instagram 😁

After using VST you will feel the same for the Yamaha binaural samples to. But I would prefer it to the Kawai sounds. But I have no issue with them when I need to use them. One more plus to the Kawai is the Bluetooth MIDI that I now use a lot with my iPad. Yamaha downs have it and not possible to buy adapter to the “SC2” but possible for the (SH2). But Yamaha’s inbuilt audio interface is great.

But I would probably pick Kawai again because of great action with the silent system.

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ATX3 is a generation behind, so it may not have the same set of issues as the CA99. There are complaints, but not as many, and it does its basic function decently on the Novus and AURES lines. It can be considered abandonware at this stage -- so what you see is what you get.

Honestly, you're in a tough spot when considering a Kawai product because realistically it seems Kawai itself is in a tough spot and not able to keep up with normal operations. Things may change.

Folks here who buy and get lucky are generally happy with Kawai products, but if they need any support help at all, it's sort of uncertain what the outcome will be. It's kind of a sad situation because Kawai normally does better. If you are willing to adjust your expectations or wait things out, you may be fine.

You may want to negotiate this situation with your dealer... if you have issues and can't get support in a reasonable time frame, you ought to be able to return your piano for a full refund. You may have more purchase protections in Europe?

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Hello navindra,

Originally Posted by navindra
Kawai itself is in a tough spot and not able to keep up with normal operations.
Originally Posted by navindra
Folks here who buy and get lucky are generally happy with Kawai products, but if they need any support help at all, it's sort of uncertain what the outcome will be.

Usually the outcome is positive.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
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Originally Posted by pianogabe
I have a K300 ATX3 and my opinion on the ATX3 system is the same as Boboulus'. Encountered no issues whatsoever. I almost exclusively use VSTi's though. Very happy with this instrument.

I have overlooked your comment. My apologies.
Which and how do you use your VST's?
Does it improve the sound quality of the samples?

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Originally Posted by Boboulus
Hahah wow yes I’m Pino.bobo on Instagram 😁

After using VST you will feel the same for the Yamaha binaural samples to. But I would prefer it to the Kawai sounds. But I have no issue with them when I need to use them. One more plus to the Kawai is the Bluetooth MIDI that I now use a lot with my iPad. Yamaha downs have it and not possible to buy adapter to the “SC2” but possible for the (SH2). But Yamaha’s inbuilt audio interface is great.

But I would probably pick Kawai again because of great action with the silent system.

Cool 😁.
Nice to meet you.
So the sound I hear on your insta is not the Kawai sound?
May I ask which sounds you use and how to you use it?
I haven't figured it out yet how to use VST's

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello navindra,

Originally Posted by navindra
Kawai itself is in a tough spot and not able to keep up with normal operations.
Originally Posted by navindra
Folks here who buy and get lucky are generally happy with Kawai products, but if they need any support help at all, it's sort of uncertain what the outcome will be.

Usually the outcome is positive.

Kind regards,
James
x

Really, James? Is that your answer to Kawai CA79/CA99 owners?


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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Stax #3106021 04/14/21 06:39 AM
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Let's go off topic (slightly) and a little neutral, shall we? Since there are Yamaha and Kawai fortresses here, let's pick our next favorite, Roland.

The facts are these:

- The RD-2000 was announced in January 2017.
- Take a look at this page: https://www.roland.com/us/support/b...rs/779c681d-ebad-42b4-8203-abd17e8da026/
- Within three months of announcement and subsequent product rollout, Roland released an update in March of 2017.
- Another in June of 2017.
- The page very clearly shows honesty, transparency and explanation of issues and fixes.

My opinions are as follows:
- I, personally, will not accept the pandemic as affecting any software related development work. I work for a conglomerate here that is in the "business" of saving lives. An unprecedented, major software update was rolled out over 4 weeks that solved a critical problem relating to health and patient safety. Speaking for myself and my organization, the software development workforce was the least disrupted because of the pandemic. I compare that with field officers, pharmacy staff, field nurses and doctors.


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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Originally Posted by mmathew
Really, James? Is that your answer to Kawai CA79/CA99 owners?

If a CA99/CA79 customer experiences an issue with their piano and they contact Kawai for assistance, I am confident that the person overseeing their support claim will try to resolve the issue.

Of course, some matters such as UI/software functionality (that I expect you are alluding to), are typically beyond the scope of the support staffs' capabilities, however they are still able to log issues with R&D and request that reproducible bugs be addressed in future software updates.

If there is a hardware-related problem, this normally requires arranging for a technician to be sent to the customer's home.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Stax #3106026 04/14/21 07:01 AM
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Well, it is up to the OP to decide.

Pianoforte playing is a very delicate experience. Something that requires 100% dedication and heart into learning, practicing, solidifying and perfecting. That in itself demands a lot from a human being. While not expecting a 100% perfect product, the lesser the time the learner can devote to issue management, the greater & quicker they build repertoire.

Stax, I wish you the best in your search to find the instrument that works for you. None of my disappointments, experiences and comments on this thread relate to the Kawai models you are researching. Feel free to ignore them.


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
G. K. Chesterton
Stax #3106032 04/14/21 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Stax
Originally Posted by Boboulus
Hahah wow yes I’m Pino.bobo on Instagram 😁

After using VST you will feel the same for the Yamaha binaural samples to. But I would prefer it to the Kawai sounds. But I have no issue with them when I need to use them. One more plus to the Kawai is the Bluetooth MIDI that I now use a lot with my iPad. Yamaha downs have it and not possible to buy adapter to the “SC2” but possible for the (SH2). But Yamaha’s inbuilt audio interface is great.

But I would probably pick Kawai again because of great action with the silent system.

Cool 😁.
Nice to meet you.
So the sound I hear on your insta is not the Kawai sound?
May I ask which sounds you use and how to you use it?
I haven't figured it out yet how to use VST's

Nice to meet you to ☺️

Sometime it is and sometimes I have used a VST. Lately I have been using the internal default sound when recording digitally so the latest videos is from the internal ATX3 samples. Usually I try to tag the VST in use in hashtags.

To use a VST is a matter of connection the piano with a usb cable and get a VST you like and the sound will come from the computer. I have my computer connected to a Motu M4 audio interface and I plug my headphones to that. ☺️

Lately I have been listening to my VST when playing and recording the line out from the piano. So I’m hearing the VST but what I post on Instagram comes from the internal sound of the Kawai. Instagrams sound is pretty hard compressed as it is so doesn’t make that huge difference.

Also I made a typ, it “piano.bobo” on Instagram if anyone is interested... mostly just me and my noob practicing 😁

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Originally Posted by Stax
Originally Posted by pianogabe
I have a K300 ATX3 and my opinion on the ATX3 system is the same as Boboulus'. Encountered no issues whatsoever. I almost exclusively use VSTi's though. Very happy with this instrument.

I have overlooked your comment. My apologies.
Which and how do you use your VST's?
Does it improve the sound quality of the samples?

No worries smile

I have used a number of them: Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX and Pianoteq are the ones I still use frequently. The latest version of Pianoteq has become so good that I use that the most. The sound is better than the ATX on board samples IMO. Although Pianoteq's sound is not the absolute best out there, I would still recommend trying that first (demo version). It has a relatively small footprint so that you can even run it on a raspberry pi (Navindra figured out how to do this). So hardware is cheap and the software is very convenient.


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Originally Posted by navindra
Folks here who buy and get lucky are generally happy with Kawai products, but if they need any support help at all, it's sort of uncertain what the outcome will be. It's kind of a sad situation because Kawai normally does better. If you are willing to adjust your expectations or wait things out, you may be fine.

You may want to negotiate this situation with your dealer... if you have issues and can't get support in a reasonable time frame, you ought to be able to return your piano for a full refund. You may have more purchase protections in Europe?

I am located in the Netherlands (which is in Europe smile ), and I had some minor issues with my K300 ATX3. These were fully solved by the dealer/Kawai Europe without problems. Very happy with instrument and service.


Kawai K-300 ATX3
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