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Meap6 Offline OP
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Hello, I have a rather specific problem with connecting my CA79 to my computer to use as a MIDI controller, so I thought I'd make a new thread rather than stick it to the owner's club.

A couple disclaimers :
  • I'm fairly new to DAWs / VSTs and such. I've downloaded a bunch of software/tools like Ardour4 and a Pianoteq trial to figure out how this stuff works.
  • I'm using Linux. Ubuntu v16.04. Though I also have Windows 10 on dual boot, most of my time is spent on Linux.


So I have a MIDI-USB cable and plug it in the DP & my computer, It does not get recognized by my Linux system (as in, the lsusb command does not even list it).
I know that the cable, piano and computer USB ports all work because I could successfully connect it on my Windows boot and play around with the Pianoteq trial.

Some google searches didn't bring up any solution, but apparently other Kawai instruments like the VPC1 and CS11 work in linux (https://discourse.ardour.org/t/kawai-usb-midi/88221/2).
Linux's ALSA should also support midi inputs (https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1055&p=5760&hilit=Kawai+MIDI#p5760).

I do have Jack, a2jmidid and some MIDI input monitors installed, but I suspect they don't see anything because the usb connection is never established.

Any ideas ?


Kawai CA79 (Jan 2021), Casio Privia PX-870 (Jun 2017)
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Meap6 Offline OP
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Also, the VPC1 drivers on Kawai's website are Windows-only, and explicitly state they're incompatible with the CA series (https://www.kawai-global.com/support/downloads/)


Kawai CA79 (Jan 2021), Casio Privia PX-870 (Jun 2017)
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Meap6 Offline OP
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Also also (sorry, still digging for info), the CA79/99 owner's manual, p84 states :

Quote
For more information regarding the USB MIDI driver, please visit the following website:
https://www.kawai-global.com/support/downloads/

Which is the website I linked above, with the VPC1 drivers (incompatible), and info/files on how to build the DP's software app/OS.
Meaning a user reading that manual is sent to a page for further information on the MIDI drivers, which does not contain further information about the MIDI drivers...


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https://medium.com/@kaerumy/audio-and-midi-controller-on-ubuntu-linux-1058e00bc7d0

This might help.

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Hello Meap6,

To clarify, am I correct in thinking that your CA79's MIDI-USB port is working correctly in Windows, but not in Linux?

If so, may I kindly ask you to modify the title of this thread to more accurately reflect this situation, please?

e.g. "Kawai CA79 MIDI-USB not detected in Linux"

Thank you in advance.

Regarding your query, I'm afraid I do not have any experience using USB-MIDI under Linux, however I have never encountered any problems with Windows, macOS, iOS, or Android.

Originally Posted by Meap6
Also, the VPC1 drivers on Kawai's website are Windows-only, and explicitly state they're incompatible with the CA series (https://www.kawai-global.com/support/downloads/)

That's correct. Older Kawai DPs could use the Kawai USB-MIDI driver (although it was not necessary, as the OS's built-in driver would function without any problems), however current generation Kawai DPs are no longer compatible with this driver. Therefore, it's only necessary for VPC1 customers, and then only for VPC1 customers using Windows who wish to use more than one MIDI app simultaneously.

Kind regards,
James
x


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Originally Posted by OU812
https://medium.com/@kaerumy/audio-and-midi-controller-on-ubuntu-linux-1058e00bc7d0

This might help.

Thanks, I came across this site when I first noticed the keyboard was not recognized and thought I was just missing an option to select MIDI inputs in the softwares. However, the issue seems to be at a more basic level since the computer does not acknowledge the existence of the DP when it is plugged in (lsusb command, as mentioned in my first post).


Hello James,
Originally Posted by Kawai James
To clarify, am I correct in thinking that your CA79's MIDI-USB port is working correctly in Windows, but not in Linux?
Correct, its was just plug'n play on windows (some notification about prepping a device, and then good to go).

Originally Posted by Kawai James
If so, may I kindly ask you to modify the title of this thread to more accurately reflect this situation, please?
e.g. "Kawai CA79 MIDI-USB not detected in Linux"

Ah, sorry. I can't find an option to do this, do you know how?

Originally Posted by Kawai James
Regarding your query, I'm afraid I do not have any experience using USB-MIDI under Linux, however I have never encountered any problems with Windows, macOS, iOS, or Android.
Hmm, if it works on iOS there should be no issues with a standard linux distribution... I guess there are no specific Kawai drivers for iOS?

Originally Posted by Kawai James
Older Kawai DPs could use the Kawai USB-MIDI driver (although it was not necessary, as the OS's built-in driver would function without any problems), however current generation Kawai DPs are no longer compatible with this driver. Therefore, it's only necessary for VPC1 customers, and then only for VPC1 customers using Windows who wish to use more than one MIDI app simultaneously.
OK, makes sense.
Thanks for your help again.


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I'm not aware of any of the major players explicitly stating MIDI support for Linux. iOS and Linux are not the same. macOS and Linux may have some similarities at a kernel level but still are very different operating systems.

I'm sure there are thousands of Linux users doing complicated music production on Linux platforms, and there is some solution somewhere, but I guess my point is Kawai (and AFAIK other majors too) have not declared compatibility or support for Linux.

Last edited by mmathew; 04/13/21 06:56 AM.

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Originally Posted by Meap6
Ah, sorry. I can't find an option to do this, do you know how?

You can perhaps try using the "Report Post" function (the small flag icon in the right of each post's header.

From here, you can request that a moderator correct the title of your thread, as per my suggestion.

Kind regards,
James
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Thanks, I've done that.


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I have managed to solve my issue!
I'll detail what was going on in my next post.

@James, I haven't heard back from the mods, so sorry about the thread title... but at least the answer to the problem will be in the thread.


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So first, to reiterate my issue :

In Ubuntu v16.04 LTS, with a long (this will be important) USB-B 2.0 to USB-A cable (the 'printer cable' type), the device was not recognized by my system.
The lsusb command did not list any connected device, which makes sense because the output of the dmesg command showed that no connection with the USB device could be established :

Quote
usb 2-3: new full-speed USB device number 30 using xhci_hcd
usb 2-3: device descriptor read/64, error -71
usb 2-3: device descriptor read/64, error -71
usb 2-3: new full-speed USB device number 31 using xhci_hcd
usb 2-3: device descriptor read/64, error -71
usb 2-3: device descriptor read/64, error -71
usb usb2-port3: attempt power cycle
usb 2-3: new full-speed USB device number 32 using xhci_hcd
usb 2-3: Device not responding to setup address.
usb 2-3: Device not responding to setup address.
usb 2-3: device not accepting address 32, error -71
usb 2-3: new full-speed USB device number 33 using xhci_hcd
usb 2-3: Device not responding to setup address.
usb 2-3: Device not responding to setup address.
usb 2-3: device not accepting address 33, error -71
usb usb2-port3: unable to enumerate USB device

Sometimes, I also had error -110 instead of -64.

After a couple hours of research, I gathered that -64 corresponds to a connection issue that is likely at the hardware level. A lot of "fixes" included rebooting, changing ports, or suggested some piece of hardware in the connection was faulty. However, I knew none of the hardware was faulty, since the identical setup on my computer booted under Windows 10 worked perfectly (and of course, changing USB ports and rebooting did not solve the issue).

The few times I got the -110 caught my attention, because this particular error signals that there is not enough power to establish connection with the device.
My cable is a few meters long, so it is possible that Linux just can't establish the connection because of this.

Lo' and behold, I got my hands on a much shorter cable, plugged, recognized, works perfectly.
dmesg shows perfect connection :

Quote
[38669.743154] usb 2-3: new full-speed USB device number 6 using xhci_hcd
[38669.908423] usb 2-3: New USB device found, idVendor=0f54, idProduct=0101
[38669.908428] usb 2-3: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
[38669.908431] usb 2-3: Product: USB-MIDI
[38670.343673] usbcore: registered new interface driver snd-usb-audio

and lsusb shows a familiar name among the devices :
Quote
Bus 002 Device 006: ID 0f54:0101 Kawai Musical Instruments Mfg. Co., Ltd MP6 Stage Piano

It's pretty interesting that my CA79 gets recognized as an "MP6 Stage Piano", maybe they have the same driver ?

In any case, I still don't know why Linux apparently sends less power than Windows to establish the USB connection, but whatever, everything works fine now. Off to learn more on DAWs. wink


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Thanks for the update, glad you got it working.

How long is the cable, by the way?

https://www.google.com/search?q=usb+cable+length

Cheers,
James
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It's really long... about 10.5 meters. That was the only one I could find when I went shopping a few years back (I didn't know better, and the music store only had that).
The new one is 1m long.


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Originally Posted by Meap6
It's really long... about 10.5 meters.

Ah, well, that's probably why it doesn't work then... ;p

Originally Posted by Meap6
That was the only one I could find when I went shopping a few years back...

Really? Did you buy it from a store called "Cables that don't work"? wink

Originally Posted by Meap6
The new one is 1m long.

Congrats!

Cheers,
James
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The maximum length is about 5m... with a 10m cable, an active cable can be preferable. But mine seems to add latency.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 04/16/21 06:54 AM.

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Meap6 Offline OP
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But I'm still baffled by the fact one OS could connect and the other couldn't with the same cable...


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Meap, I just looked it up, USB 2.x cables must not have more than 5m. Besides that, cheap no brand cables may not have the correct impedance and/or signal quality that may impair communication. Maybe Windows drivers are more resilient, they do more retries to try to establish the connection and Linux's drivers are more restrictive, privileging reliability.

The longest cable I dared to use was 3m (10ft).


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.

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