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Hi everyone, its been a while since i last posted on here.

has anyone had an experience like me whereby all favorite sounds have disappeared and CA99 had defaulted all settings back to factory default settings ?

Firmware is as per the latest and i haven't made any changes since playing it 2 days ago.

Any help would be appreciated.

thanks
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Yes, it happened to me too. Inexplicably my ca79 had lost all user sounds and restored default settings by itself on the next reboot.
Probably another bug.

This piano is a disgrace.

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Hi everyone!

I finally got my CA79 last week, I'm delighted!

As expected there are some minor issues but for now the most annoying is the language setting. I live in Japan and naturally it came in Japanese. I changed it to English and to my surprise on the next reboot It was back to Japanese, then I tried all combinations of "Startup Settings" but the language setting just won't stick, every time I reboot it's back to Japanese. Am I missing something? Is this a known issue? Can someone please test this on your CA79?

I thought about updating the software but as far as I can tell, it already has the latest... UI: 1.06, Touch panel: 3.3.21, Firmware 1.08

Now I'm thinking a possible solution might be to try to "update" it with the software downloaded from kawai-global (instead of kawai.jp).

It seems like Kawai is not working on this software anymore, the latest update is from April 2020, one year ago!!!

Cheers!

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Hi Aru,
Happy to know you love the piano as well!

Originally Posted by Aru
It seems like Kawai is not working on this software anymore, the latest update is from April 2020, one year ago!!!

We're not despairing yet. According to Kawai James, they are working on an update which will hopefully fix a good chunk of the bugs we've noticed up to here.
Though we are a bit tired from the silence from Kawai (the company) on the matter...

I wish you luck with you language issues. I recall an other user had something similar happen and apparently fixed it by having the power-on settings to use the last settings before power-off.
Personally I've gone with leaving the piano on most of the time to not have to deal with the boot time and setting selection every time I want to play.

Have fun with your CA79, I'm still very much enchanted by it when I don't have to mess with the UI !


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This video shows the sounds my keys make, a Kawai technician came over today and was pretty abrupt in telling me its not something he can fix and I have to live with it or anything like this basically if it occurs, temperature changes etc.. can affect the wood of course and if I cant hear the noises under half volume it should not really be classed as an issue he said, which I disagreed with as often I like to play at low volumes and shouldnt have to hear friction noises. It may well be a case of the piano has not been played in enough, but I play a couple of hours most nights and I have had it since last September.

The friction noises were accompanied by a slightly stiffer feeling also but that is less noticeable now. Also the keys used to be squeeky in different places, they shift around... but regardless, if you dont play the piano for a while the keys are all fine again, so when the tech came over this morning there were not many noises, its only if played on for a while they appear.

Anyway, just to let you all know my current situation, I've been told I have to put up with anything like this, it happens and because its a semi-hybrid with wooden keys basically keys can get like this with temp changes etc..

If you want perfection in a piano perhaps don't go with Kawai... just a thought.

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Originally Posted by mwf


This video shows the sounds my keys make, a Kawai technician came over today and was pretty abrupt in telling me its not something he can fix and I have to live with it or anything like this basically if it occurs, temperature changes etc.. can affect the wood of course and if I cant hear the noises under half volume it should not really be classed as an issue he said, which I disagreed with as often I like to play at low volumes and shouldnt have to hear friction noises. It may well be a case of the piano has not been played in enough, but I play a couple of hours most nights and I have had it since last September.

The friction noises were accompanied by a slightly stiffer feeling also but that is less noticeable now. Also the keys used to be squeeky in different places, they shift around... but regardless, if you dont play the piano for a while the keys are all fine again, so when the tech came over this morning there were not many noises, its only if played on for a while they appear.

Anyway, just to let you all know my current situation, I've been told I have to put up with anything like this, it happens and because its a semi-hybrid with wooden keys basically keys can get like this with temp changes etc..

If you want perfection in a piano perhaps don't go with Kawai... just a thought.

That is terrible. I can buy mechanical noise being normal, but sticking keys and rubbing noises? That can’t be acceptable in a piano. If it cannot be repaired per the technician, then isn’t a warranty replacement due?

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Originally Posted by mwf
Anyway, just to let you all know my current situation, I've been told I have to put up with anything like this, it happens and because its a semi-hybrid with wooden keys basically keys can get like this with temp changes etc..

I don't really know what the technician meant by "semi-hybrid." Can you really even use the piano normally with this issue? So a replacement is due to you if the piano is still under warranty?


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Originally Posted by mmathew
Originally Posted by mwf
Anyway, just to let you all know my current situation, I've been told I have to put up with anything like this, it happens and because its a semi-hybrid with wooden keys basically keys can get like this with temp changes etc..

I don't really know what the technician meant by "semi-hybrid." Can you really even use the piano normally with this issue? So a replacement is due to you if the piano is still under warranty?

I bought it last September so it still has warranty, but everytime I bring this up with where i bought it, they just open a claim with kawai who send a technician, that's all that happens everytime. Now the tech has said friction noises and rubbing against felt should be tolerable and expected as its pretty much like an acoustic, he told me I should definetly not consider an nv10 if i dont want any slight issues like this and also he told me I've never owned an acoustic piano otherwise i would have known all this. He says there's nothing wrong with it... I'm not so sure, but that's what he's said. Can't really win can I.

Oh and I'm not exaggerating any of this by the way. I can still play the piano fine, maybe it will get better over time who knows.

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Originally Posted by mwf
Originally Posted by mmathew
Originally Posted by mwf
Anyway, just to let you all know my current situation, I've been told I have to put up with anything like this, it happens and because its a semi-hybrid with wooden keys basically keys can get like this with temp changes etc..

I don't really know what the technician meant by "semi-hybrid." Can you really even use the piano normally with this issue? So a replacement is due to you if the piano is still under warranty?

I bought it last September so it still has warranty, but everytime I bring this up with where i bought it, they just open a claim with kawai who send a technician, that's all that happens everytime. Now the tech has said friction noises and rubbing against felt should be tolerable and expected as its pretty much like an acoustic, he told me I should definetly not consider an nv10 if i dont want any slight issues like this and also he told me I've never owned an acoustic piano otherwise i would have known all this. He says there's nothing wrong with it... I'm not so sure, but that's what he's said. Can't really win can I.

Oh and I'm not exaggerating any of this by the way. I can still play the piano fine, maybe it will get better over time who knows.

You could try a different piano brand like korg, and all of the tiers of the clavinovas , that would drive me crazy if it is audible at lower volumes. I'd return it IMHO


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Originally Posted by Jitin
Originally Posted by mwf
Originally Posted by mmathew
Originally Posted by mwf
Anyway, just to let you all know my current situation, I've been told I have to put up with anything like this, it happens and because its a semi-hybrid with wooden keys basically keys can get like this with temp changes etc..

I don't really know what the technician meant by "semi-hybrid." Can you really even use the piano normally with this issue? So a replacement is due to you if the piano is still under warranty?

I bought it last September so it still has warranty, but everytime I bring this up with where i bought it, they just open a claim with kawai who send a technician, that's all that happens everytime. Now the tech has said friction noises and rubbing against felt should be tolerable and expected as its pretty much like an acoustic, he told me I should definetly not consider an nv10 if i dont want any slight issues like this and also he told me I've never owned an acoustic piano otherwise i would have known all this. He says there's nothing wrong with it... I'm not so sure, but that's what he's said. Can't really win can I.

Oh and I'm not exaggerating any of this by the way. I can still play the piano fine, maybe it will get better over time who knows.

You could try a different piano brand like korg, and all of the tiers of the clavinovas , that would drive me crazy if it is audible at lower volumes. I'd return it IMHO

I was told by tech like i said before that if its under half volume you can hear it then its classed as acceptable due to its relationship to a real acoustic, he even mentioned it would need regulating probably in time or sooner, not sure, i initially corrected him as he said it was a hybrid piano and i said its not a real hybrid, so he went down to semi hybrid after i argued this with him. In fact he was quite loud and abrupt with me from the start and ot was turning into an argument which i had to try not to get too angry, the chap is actually a cool guy and I get on well with him it's just maybe i need another kawai tech to look at it instead for a second opinion. The problem also is the noises don't appear when the tech comes lol only a milder version so it appears to be fine-ish, i showed him the above video and he did think that was pretty bad, but it wasn't like that when he was there so what can he do I guess.

I'd like to emphasise that the tech guy I'm not against and am not bad mouthing him personally, alot of what he said made sense also to me, just maybe kawai and the techs are maybe slightly out of touch I don't know.

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Beeing "loud" in a customer conversation is a TOTALLY NO GO for me. One attempt and he would be warned, a second one and it would be "out" of my house for him.

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Originally Posted by mwf
I'd like to emphasise that the tech guy I'm not against and am not bad mouthing him personally, alot of what he said made sense also to me, just maybe kawai and the techs are maybe slightly out of touch I don't know.

Stuff like this doesn't make me happy.

I have an NV-10, and it has a problem with a few keys since it came out of the box. It's a smaller problem like you have: F4 and G5 (and to lesser extent, some others in the middle-c octave) are poorly regulated. Repetition speed is slow and inaccurate, accuracy when playing pp and ppp is poor (sometimes no notes, or too loud).

There are no weird noises or anything; just poor regulation on some keys. I can play the piano fine, but if I'm trying to practice pieces with (very) soft parts around those poorly regulated keys (which happens frequently, as most of them are in the middle-C octave), everything goes to s**** because I have to pay particular attention on HOW I'm touching those keys so I can get a sound from them.

Yes, it happens on acoustics. Yes, if you buy an acoustic, it will very often (at least by a good dealer) be tuned and regulated when it's set up at your home, and then again 3-4 months later. That it can happen to any acoustic is not an excuse to let a problem just sit there if it happens to a digital.

No piano technician, when faced with a problem, is ever going to say: "Oh, but that happens on an expensive Steinway too, sometimes. You just have to live with it."

The entire problem is that these piano's are treated like appliances; if you open them up yourself, or have someone else take a look at it, the warranty could be voided. Therefore you're at the mercy of Kawai / the technician.

Even so: WTH should the technician care, anyway? He has some time allotted for this claim each time he comes out. Kawai has to pay for that time. If a technician comes out 3-4 times and then tells you that you "should just live with it", that is surely more expensive for Kawai than just opening up the thing and fixing it the first time.

The only reason I can see this happening is if there is some sort of contract between the repair center and Kawai, where Kawai says: We'll pay you X for this problem, regardless of the time it takes you to fix it. If fixing it is not worth it for X, then the technician wouldn't fix it.

The situation is bad for every party involved:

- Kawai (because they made a piano, and it now has a problem)
- The technician (because he doesn't want to fix the problem for whatever reason)
- The relationship between the repair center and Kawai (Kawai is probably paying for the technician to come out)
- The relationship between you and your dealer (he seems to do nothing but make a report to Kawai)

This is all-around poor customer service.

I've had to, in the end, call my dealer and have him call Kawai Germany directly, because they wouldn't react to the form they themselves requested me to fill out. (Later that turned out to be because of "some sort of technical problem"; they had received "only" 3 of the 7 submissions I sent, 1 every week... yeah, right...)

In the end, I was e-mailed by the repair center with the question to send them the invoice (which I did), and then then THEY went silent for 12 days. After that I had to e-mail THEM to get going again. Now an appointment has finally been made, but when the technician comes, this will be about 2 _months_ after the first mail to my dealer. (He made the report to Kawai immediately, because I got a Kawai-branded mail the same day, with the request to fill out the support form.)

Situations like this don't inspire confidence, to be honest. I hope my problem will be fixed definitively next week, and I also hope you can get yours fixed, somehow... maybe see if you can contact Kawai James on the forums, and see if Kawai Japan can intervene directly with your local Kawai headquarters.


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Originally Posted by Falsch
...maybe see if you can contact Kawai James on the forums, and see if Kawai Japan can intervene directly with your local Kawai headquarters.

I've already exchanged a few messages with mwf regarding this matter.

Kind regards,
James
x


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Great; I hope your intervention will be able to get the mwf's instrument fixed. Those squeaking sounds the keys make shouldn't be swept under the rug as "normal". In that case, my problem of some poorly regulated keys would be even smaller, and I'd just have to live with it and not play pp or ppp on a 9K instrument...

Maybe Kawai should have an option in their support form to indicate "Instrument needs adjustment" ? It seems as if they're now treating every call as a "repair" as if the instrument is broken. mwf's piano isn't broken; my NV-10 isn't either. They both need some adjustment for some keys, and that'll probably fix the issue for the next 20 years (if the piano is treated normally and not in a super-hot/cold/wet environment).

I liked my MP7. If Kawai would build an MP77-D (two 61-key manuals and two sets of drawbars to control their tonewheen simulator), I'd buy one in a heartbeat. The MP7 was a great piano, and (disregarding the form-factor) one of the best _organs_ I ever had too.
If the CA-97 had been a two-piece instrument in 2016, I would have bought that instead of the LX-17, because I liked the Kawai sound better. (The LX-17 is very good, but the Kawai sound was just a bit more to my taste. Maybe because I was used to the MP7 at the time.)
I love the NV-10. It's everything I expected of it, with some small niggles here or there (mostly in how the UI works).

If the support handling had been better (i.e., keys regulated within 2 weeks after the first call... OK, let's make it 3-4 because of COVID) everything would have been perfect.

Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Falsch
...maybe see if you can contact Kawai James on the forums, and see if Kawai Japan can intervene directly with your local Kawai headquarters.

I've already exchanged a few messages with mwf regarding this matter.

Kind regards,
James
x

Last edited by Falsch; 04/16/21 06:35 AM.

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Originally Posted by Falsch
Great; I hope your intervention will be able to get the mwf's instrument fixed.

In cases such as yourselves, where the customer is already in contact with the dealer and or Kawai distributor/subsidiary, it's usually not necessary for me to intervene.

I trust the judgement of my colleagues and the technicians assigned to work on customer instruments. These people have decades of experience in this field - they know what they're talking about.

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
I trust the judgement of my colleagues and the technicians assigned to work on customer instruments. These people have decades of experience in this field - they know what they're talking about.

I can understand you saying that on a public forum, in your current role for Kawai. I've been there myself. I've had a role similar to yours (and Jay G from Roland, who now works for Nikon, if that hasn't changed) for a different company almost 15 years ago.

At the same time I can also understand mwf being miffed about the technician saying that the problem is something an acoustic can also experience, and that therefore, he should just live with it. You can't just ignore a problem by stating "but an acoustic can have it too"; in that case you imply that the problem can't be, or will never be fixed on an acoustic either, which is just nonsense.

Fact is that mwf's problem with the keys is more serious than mine. Maybe his key friction problem can even be called a defect because it's so noticable. My problem isn't a defect; a few keys just need some adjustments. If a technician handles mwf's problem with "just live with it", I'm obviously worried about the technicican's reaction to my smaller problem.

Assuming mwf doesn't live in the Netherlands near me, both technicians won't be the same person, and so this is just an n=1 anecdotal case, but still....


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Originally Posted by mwf
[quote=mmathew][quote=mwf]
I can still play the piano fine, maybe it will get better over time who knows.

Look at what Kawai is doing to people like these - folks who seem to love Kawai unconditionally. Generally speaking, I wish I have the level of patience that folks like mwf have. It'd certainly help me in all areas of life in addition to piano.

I spent 2.5 hours one way, to travel to a Kawai dealer. I paid full retail with taxes. I gave hefty tips to the strongmen who helped me load the piano into my car. In my 4 months of CA79 ownership, I spent in total of about 6 hours setting up the piano, moving it about to a favorite place, cleaning etc. I treated it like a baby, and I wouldn't allow my family to touch the piano, even if I slightly suspected their hands were dirty. I obsessed over it.

In the end, the software issues literally made the instrument unusable for me. Unfortunately, the issues were not something the dealers or even available Kawai technicians can fix. It was really perplexing to me how a manufacturer like Kawai could be so silent about these issues. From what I know, the Japanese manufacturers are so proud of their work - that they will produce an unexpectedly, substantially better product, in response to any customer complaints. Where's that gone?

For my own peace of mind, I sold my CA79. The dealer didn't even try to talk me out of it. In fact he gave more than half price plus hauled it away from my home conveniently. As tempting as it was for me to chose an NV10 as a replacement, I said out a loud NO to Kawai.

But still, that lover boy in me is lurking around here in hope of seeing something forceful from Kawai that will silence me forever and fall in love with Kawai, all over again.

@mwf - I hope your patience is amply rewarded!


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Originally Posted by mmathew
Originally Posted by mwf
[quote=mmathew][quote=mwf]
I can still play the piano fine, maybe it will get better over time who knows.

Look at what Kawai is doing to people like these - folks who seem to love Kawai unconditionally. Generally speaking, I wish I have the level of patience that folks like mwf have. It'd certainly help me in all areas of life in addition to piano.

I spent 2.5 hours one way, to travel to a Kawai dealer. I paid full retail with taxes. I gave hefty tips to the strongmen who helped me load the piano into my car. In my 4 months of CA79 ownership, I spent in total of about 6 hours setting up the piano, moving it about to a favorite place, cleaning etc. I treated it like a baby, and I wouldn't allow my family to touch the piano, even if I slightly suspected their hands were dirty. I obsessed over it.

In the end, the software issues literally made the instrument unusable for me. Unfortunately, the issues were not something the dealers or even available Kawai technicians can fix. It was really perplexing to me how a manufacturer like Kawai could be so silent about these issues. From what I know, the Japanese manufacturers are so proud of their work - that they will produce an unexpectedly, substantially better product, in response to any customer complaints. Where's that gone?

For my own peace of mind, I sold my CA79. The dealer didn't even try to talk me out of it. In fact he gave more than half price plus hauled it away from my home conveniently. As tempting as it was for me to chose an NV10 as a replacement, I said out a loud NO to Kawai.

But still, that lover boy in me is lurking around here in hope of seeing something forceful from Kawai that will silence me forever and fall in love with Kawai, all over again.

@mwf - I hope your patience is amply rewarded!

It seems really strange. However, not knowing what your software issues were exactly , but when it impacts playability in the action and the sound, and action changing like in MWFs case, that is of big concern.


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I totally agree. With my CA79 - build quality, sounds, key actions - were all top quality. Absolutely zero issues.

I don't want to list out the software issues here for fear of taking away critical importance of mwf's serious issues.




---
In case you're interested: https://semestriel.framapad.org/p/kawai-ca79ca99-ui-amp-system-issues-9mga

Last edited by mmathew; 04/16/21 10:33 AM.

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In my case the action is indeed changing, the friction noises change keys, now there are a couple more developing in the upper octaves, if i get another key that starts rubbing more forcefully i think I'll call it a day, i definetely had a couple that were slightly stiffer the other month, but it cleared up and the issue moved to a different area on the keyboard, now its just friction noises and it's totally playable so this is the main reason I'm not overly bothered with chasing down a replacement etc.. Also the shop i bought it from have offered a good trade in price for a new avantgrand n1x or nv10, or whatever piano i want so I'm not stuck in the worst place or anything, i planned to get a new piano anyway to replace the ca99 so it's not my permanent piano regardless.

However maybe i should go with N1X next, I've no idea if yamaha tend to be more reliable and things get fixed without question, customer service quality etc.. I do feel I'd be safer with yamaha now, great shame because I dearly want a NV10. But I'd be worried about regulation issues, for example i can't imagine one day i decide a few keys are not playing as well as others a technician would come and sort it for me just like that, it took them months to get someone out to look at it last time... And I'd be worried they would just tell me its normal and to live with it... Just like what's happened to me, and for £7500 I'd lose the plot and get too angry and stressed.

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