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Originally Posted by EVC2017
Originally Posted by Abdol
I totally agree with you. DGX series is a masterpeice. Great that you made this discovery and shared it with us. Thank you!

Who are you? What did you do with the true Abdol? Please give him back! Preferably in one piece! smile

I've looked through Abdol's previous posts, this sudden change in personality/allegiance is highly irregular. grin He's was firmly team kawai.

Last edited by EinLudov; 04/09/21 11:21 AM.
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Well I also remember that he started to like the DGX 670 and I agree it is fantastic. Took me less than one day to know most of the main functionality plus record a whole cover song, to get started.

For someone who loves playing and creating, such easy userinterface plus variety of options is invaluable.

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Originally Posted by Djengis
Hahaha ;-) no he is an actual person who likes reviewing pianos: james pavel shawcross

You're either too young, a new member here, or maybe you don't understand middle eastern sarcasm.

To be honest with you, you have no (zero) idea about what professional gear should be.

So here is my feedback on your post. You're comparing potatoes and watermelons. DGX670 is definitely not a professional instrument. It has the worst 88-key action Yamaha manufactures at has the worst arranger capabilities. Not even the same as the entry-level PSR-S670 (or even PSR-660).

Originally Posted by Djengis
The DGX670 is just great and I believe perfect for professional use

Not true. What is a professional use? Are you talking about the studio? the stage? or song ararngement?

Studio: I need an absolute killer "bread and butter" voices, awesome action, and control capabilities. If I have some old gears, I need MIDI I/O. I don't need a garbage internal speaker because I have great monitor speakers in the studio and standard monitor headphones.

Stage: On the stage, bread and butter voices are the most important ones. I don't play "acoustic guitar" nor do I play flute on my stage keyboard. There is a monitor on the stage dedicated to me and I don't need the internal speakers. I also don't need an audio interface. Because on the stage using a USB audio interface is useless. Sometimes you don't even have a stereo cable available!

Music production: DGX-670 doesn't have a sequencer and you can't even do a professional arrangement on it. It sounds terrible for music production. It's a beginner instrument. No compressor effect, no side chains, limited capabilities even for creating styles!

My MOTIF XF which is a monster compared to the DGX series in terms of functionality is still a toy compared to a DAW. No professional would use an arranger to compose an audio track. Maybe if you want to play something for kids in the kindergarten or at home it is okay to use a style from the DGX series. I wouldn't take it to a serious gig.

Originally Posted by Djengis
Also in Yamahas favour I will say that the GHS keys are actually as good as the Kawai MP7se ones. THe touch is great and the keys turn to their resting position swiftly, have a good cushion feeling at the bottom/base and one doesn't tire though playing intensively for a long time.

GHS lacks escapements, counterweights, and other features. Try to learn about how acoustic piano's action work and you'll start appreciating the RHIII behavior.

Originally Posted by Djengis
THe MP7se got me tired quite quickly (and I believe Pavel said that this owes to there being some resistance all the way down, whereas the Yamaha only gives it at the start but then willingly and easily follows the fingers movement). ALso I believe that though GHS has 2 sensors, still the controle and nuances of one's playing is heard very well. Especially if having several layers of sound I believe not many will be able to hear the difference (even with just the piano).

The escapement is what your keyboard lacks. You didn't properly understand what Pavel said, or Pavel knows little about actions. The 3rd sensor contributes to faster performance. I have played GHS keyboards before (MOX/F 88 and MODX 88) and it's nothing near RHIII. RD2000, P-515 all have these same features and they have escapement.

Originally Posted by Djengis
I believe that most of the reason for the MP7se's fame owes to the combination of the keybed and the very meticulously sampled piano sounds. It is hard to hear what owes to the sampling and what to the keybed. I played them both side by side, including without sound, a lot recently and honestly I find the DGX670 keybed at least on par with that of the Kawai Rh3.

MP7SE is a stage instrument. Manufactured for professionals and those who want to perform on the stage. DGX670 is built to be played at home.

Originally Posted by Djengis
I even started to prefer the GHS after a few days. But I guess one needs to get adjusted to the feel. ALso the DGX670 feels lighter just as you return from having played the MP7se, but quickly this impression leaves one. Also my precision actually seemed to be as good or better when playing the Yamaha. So the hype about Yamaha's GHS being 20 years old is nonsense if it works well.

It's the worst action Yamaha manufactures as of today. It's a fact.

Originally Posted by Djengis
SO I return the Kawai one which does not even have an audio interface, thus no mic inlet. This implies a lot of cabling in order to simply hear the play back of software VSTs, when mixing one’s music or when doing casual listening from the web. The DGX670 has a very easy Bluetooth connectivity which works. From where I listen it is just not practical with all those cables plus an audio interface means more tech stuff and adjustments, as opposed to focusing on playing. If you don’t have a band and a need for a mixer or several instrumental inlets then it is bothersome and costly to have to get a sound interface.

You wanted something for home use, and your first choice was base on you not being familiar with your needs.

You have little understanding of why an audio interface is not significant to have in the studio, or on the stage, or for music composition and you don't know how to set up and manage your gears accordingly.

Bluetooth connectivity has a delay. You have a bare minimum audio interface on the DGX. What I want is a professional mixer that can handle multiple instruments. In the studio I'd rather have optical/digital I/Os on my devices rather than an interface. Genos actually has it.

Originally Posted by Djengis
ALso the DGX sounds are just great out of the box plus it has all the arranger functionality.

You must try the older DGX series first. The bread and butter sound set you get in the DGX series doesn't sound the same as Yamaha's stage instruments nor MP7SE. Acoustic guitars or flute and saxophone aren't bread and butter voices.

Originally Posted by Djengis
Perhaps the ability to switch to a lighter touch in an instant, such as what the Kawai MP7se provides (well it is very easy to change the sensitivity on the DGX670 actually and not deep inside some menu: Two ways to change and in the piano room mode it is two button presses + with the direct access around the same I guess). THen one can instantaneously change the keybed feel from one, optimised for the piano focused pianist, to a keybed for the more synth/organ focused player. I might be contradicting myself and perhaps the keybed is not the issue but the sampling which might be of higher quality for those before mentioned DPs

The rest of the points you're making are all relates to you using this instrument in a basic home setup.

Let me just give you two examples:
Change a voice on your DGX670 while pressing the sustain pedal and see what happens. That will never happen on MP7SE.
Can you find a MIDI I/O at the back of your keyboard?

Anyway, if you didn't like MP7SE it's fine but comparing DGX670 and MP7SE and conclusions like yours are like saying I like potatos but I don't like watermelons. It's not a comparison. I hope you see the point.


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@Djengis:
I think the GHS is a very nice and light keyboard action.

I agree RHIII is not light at all and after some time of playing it tires your fingers, especially if you are an adult beginner and you are learning classical piano music where you have fast trills, repeated notes, octaves, big chords, passages where you have some fingers more near the fallboard, or where your hand remains in the same position and your fingers quickly alternate between bichords (1-3, 2-4, 3-5, 2-4, 1-3 and so on). I think these things are much less tiring to do on a light keyboard action like the Yamaha GHS or the Kawai RHC compared to the less cheap Yamaha NWX or the Kawai RHIII. But I guess the latters could make the transition to a real acoustic easier... Or is it just a metropolitan legend?

Anyway I don't think you should compare 2 instruments designed for different targets in mind. We are talking about a very generic multi-purpose digital piano/arranger VS a professional stage piano with 4 independent zones you can mix/split/etc... The MP7SE doesn't even have internal speakers (that's standard with professional stage equipment) and it was designed to work as a MIDI controller too.

IMHO, as a professional stage piano, the MP7SE is absolutely unrivaled in its price range. And it's sturdy and beautiful looking too.

Anyway, as a generic DP, if I look at the specs and price, the DGX-670 looks a very nice product and it has a great value for money. But if I look at its pictures I'm crying! It's very bulky, fat, ugly looking to me and just for this I would never buy it... Just a quick comparison of the looks:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

As you can notice, the first is clearly all plastic (and has a strange looking shape in the back). The other one has an elegant looking metal case.

But as I said before, they are 2 different products for different targets and use cases (and for very different aesthetic tastes!).

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Originally Posted by Djengis
Well I also remember that he started to like the DGX 670 and I agree it is fantastic. Took me less than one day to know most of the main functionality plus record a whole cover song, to get started.

For someone who loves playing and creating, such easy userinterface plus variety of options is invaluable.

It took me (and other users) a couple of years to learn the ins and outs of my MOTIF XF properly.


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Originally Posted by magicpiano
@Djengis:
As you can notice, the first is clearly all plastic (and has a strange looking shape in the back). The other one has an elegant looking metal case.

Agreed it looks a bit weird on its own, but with the stand, it looks alright.

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An audio interface like that on the DGX670 simply converts sound into 0 s and 1 s and in this case in CD quality, which probably is sufficient for most people.

If you don't have a whole band or just the DP and vocals then an extermal audio interface is like shooting sparrows with a cannon.

Yes, one might have a bit more controle with the MP7se since it is more weighted, but it is a matter of getting used to. When one plays on the DGX you need to exert less force to do the same. Not talking about the escapement which of course might add some friction as well, but that there is a continuous resistance throughout the keys journey on the MP7se and probably this makes the fingers tire faster.

Let me say I play very fast and complicated pieces of music. But the last years due to the Moxf8 I got out of training because of the user interface.
I have owned 7 Yamahas: P 300, p120, p155, CP5, Dgx660, MOXF8, and now the DGX670.
I return the MP7se due to a scouring sound of the middle C.
Also I have a son whom I teach the art of playing. Having too heavy keys is not beneficial to him. One can chance the setting from medium to hard1 if wanting to.

Try pressing the ghs keys and the mp7se side by side without sound. You will realise that the GHS is not too light at all. This makes me believe even more that the sensation of heaviness owes primarily to this constant counterforce of the Kawai keys.

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Originally Posted by EinLudov
Originally Posted by magicpiano
@Djengis:
As you can notice, the first is clearly all plastic (and has a strange looking shape in the back). The other one has an elegant looking metal case.

Agreed it looks a bit weird on its own, but with the stand, it looks alright.
IMHO it looks strange with its stand too:

[Linked Image]

I don't like that the DP width goes beyond the width of the stand and I don't like the design of those clumsy looking feet that give the impression of wanting to trip you... grin

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Originally Posted by Djengis
An audio interface like that on the DGX670 simply converts sound into 0 s and 1 s and in this case in CD quality, which probably is sufficient for most people.

If you don't have a whole band or just the DP and vocals then an extermal audio interface is like shooting sparrows with a cannon.

Yes, one might have a bit more controle with the MP7se since it is more weighted, but it is a matter of getting used to. When one plays on the DGX you need to exert less force to do the same. Not talking about the escapement which of course might add some friction as well, but that there is a continuous resistance throughout the keys journey on the MP7se and probably this makes the fingers tire faster.

Let me say I play very fast and complicated pieces of music. But the last years due to the Moxf8 I got out of training because of the user interface.
I have owned 7 Yamahas: P 300, p120, p155, CP5, Dgx660, MOXF8, and now the DGX670.
I return the MP7se due to a scouring sound of the middle C.
Also I have a son whom I teach the art of playing. Having too heavy keys is not beneficial to him. One can chance the setting from medium to hard1 if wanting to.

Try pressing the ghs keys and the mp7se side by side without sound. You will realise that the GHS is not too light at all. This makes me believe even more that the sensation of heaviness owes primarily to this constant counterforce of the Kawai keys.

None of your older keyboards had escapement. I have seen many children learning to play piano on acoustics with stiffer actions compared to GHS.

I honestly don't understand what you're trying to infer here. I'd never buy DGX670 to go on a stage, studio with. For professional music production, I also choose a synth that has great integration with DAWs and a decent audio interface. For speakers, I'd pick a good pair of studio montiros.

That's about it. If I don't want to spend a single penny on the quality of the music I make, I'd pick DGX-670.


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Originally Posted by Djengis
I don't give much for the so called categories plus people have various needs. FOr me it makes sense to compare them in that they are both user friendly and good for realtime adjustments. I compare them since they were the top choices for me and my needs and I know many have the same needs. THus I don't care which categories the manufacturers have chosen to place them in. It is irrelevant what is relevant is what you need to do.
I guess there is money in upselling and calling the DGX670 a beginners piano but I don't agree. If it works it works and the sounds are amazing. THat should be the core thing.

I think you did a great job summarising those little beasts from your point of view. I agree with you entirely. Others have commented on digital piano keyboards including the Kawai RH one which is popular here because Kawai is popular here.
There are many self opinionated who despise GHS in a freaky way. They hate it.
Let them, poor b*ggers
I found it a good action for, as you say, those with slimmer and smaller fingers. Mine are a tad large, but I played my best on that board, indeed, on the DGXs I owned. There were three.
I've never had so much fun, nor learnt so much as I did in those days. I learnt to write and play multitrack stuff which exceeded my wildest dreams; it was so easy, and you could include a drum backing which was pretty comprehensive, with fill ins etc.

Nothing compares! I'll probably buy another if I want to go down that path again. Have fun.Djengis. That's what it's all about!


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Thanks ☺️👍

Started to wonder if I were the only one. I agree that the keybed is good on the Mp7se but one quickly adapts to rhe touch on the Dgx and then one can play at about the same level, PLUS have so much fun as you said.

If yamaha decides to follow up on the 670 by offering a version with their 3 sensor keys, then I will get that one. Or if Kawai includes an audio interface, bluetooth and optimally some more rhythms/ styles etc I will buy that one. The soeakers of the Dgx are really good and clear. That is an advantage. Lousy speakers are not.

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Originally Posted by Djengis
Thanks ☺️👍

Started to wonder if I were the only one. I agree that the keybed is good on the Mp7se but one quickly adapts to rhe touch on the Dgx and then one can play at about the same level, PLUS have so much fun as you said.

If yamaha decides to follow up on the 670 by offering a version with their 3 sensor keys, then I will get that one. Or if Kawai includes an audio interface, bluetooth and optimally some more rhythms/ styles etc I will buy that one. The soeakers of the Dgx are really good and clear. That is an advantage. Lousy speakers are not.

The DGX always had great speakers which belied their power rating. They are indeed better than those on the P515 which I now have.
It's not geared for pro musicians on stage; it'd have line outs for that. But it can be used just as well with the headphone socket, and the memory banks are superbly useful, as are the brass sounds if you're doing some intimate gigs.
Where it does fall down is when you might want to split the keyboard using RH for say, sax or trumpet, whilst the LH would be piano accomp. You cannot apply reverb etc etc to the LH voices on previous DGXs. This might have been remedied, but you could still manage anyway at a pinch.
Might do to ignore Abdol. You'll get little sense out of him.

Last edited by peterws; 04/09/21 06:04 PM.

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Definitely the memory banks are really useful and functional. One can save four completely different scenarios with volume changes, variation of the Style, effects, choice of instruments etc. Perhaps this makes having zones redundant. One can switch instantaneously between two scenarious. Yes one can have a max of two layers and a left hand voice two implying a split.
But how often does one use that many layers?

Instead there are great accompaniments which can be simplified to make space for ones playing.

I can not take Abdol serious as you say, unless I were a very self destructive man.

Besides I forgot to correct him that there is compression and a LOT of professional effects. If that is not professional I don't know...

I know that the recordings are of high quality including the vocals.
It is a gift to have such easy, well thought through UI and simple working flow, yet powerful features and varieties.

Yes I like the keybed of the Mp7se but it imposes so many other challenges, which I don't have to worry about with the DGX 670.
I prefer the easy road to creating, being a spontaneous improvisor.
So simple to just plug the microphone and record it with the playing or together with an already recorded midi song.

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You are gonna have loads of fun! I used mine mainly for piano but the orchestral stuff is marvellous. If you wanted to see any of my stuff it's on YT under Peter Robin. "Me a bike and a piano" willl get you there . . . smile


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Great, I surely will check out your stuff soon. My son uses my pc because his Roblox account doesn't work, so I will do it later. ☺️

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I want to add that I prefer the weighting and counter weight of the Kawai keys. I understand very well why it was awarded the best digital piano 3 years in a row (the last 3 I think). I have great controle with playing difficult and fast paced Chopin pieces and other composers as well. I feel that I have a difficulty to time for example Fantasie Impromptu by Chopin, with the Yamaha GHS, though I manage it, but I have to use talent to do so.

One could argue as various professional musicians have told me, that making it harder (including listening to the not optimal sound while recording) makes you perform better.

But I wish to have a DGX670 Xx with the keybed of the Mp7se which is fantastic.
I still stand by my words: That the overall winner is DGX670.

The reason is to find in the above. Also I wish to say that the socalled ivory touch is an overrated gimmick.

Who has sweaty hands??? I think those are not the average people: I met only one person who had this as an illness. I really don't buy that silly argument: who the heck invented that???

Actually my fingers sit more firmly on the Yamaha keys. They slip more on the Kawai keys.

I give the Yamaha 100 points (point of reference) and the Kawai 75 points (to be fair) speaking as a creative artist who likes simplicity and not wasting one's time on nerding around.
I am not an amateur friends! I am a composer.
Read, listen and learn if you are smart!

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Nice music Peter and nice bumby film although the sound quality could be improved I guess.
I guess you are from either Great Britain some where, or an aussie. I lean towards my first guess: Perhaps due to the buildings and your Elton John type of music. I have lived in the UK myself.

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Another cool thing about the DGX670 which I love is that I can overview all the tracks with one push of a button and silence or activate which ones I want. Say if you use some style and there is a piano riff as part of it but now you want to suddenly play the piano (before you played the synth for ex) and then you wish to remove the piano of that style. It is just one click (well two). You can then save those scenes (up to 4) and press them while playing, realtime.

Some might think: Oh he might be paid by Yamaha. Reheaally. Such good piano needs just some honest people's appreciation.

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So as said I stick to my word about the Dgx being an excellent stage piano apart from the foolish idea to force one to buy the stand in order to use the pedal. That is REALLY FOOLISH YAMAHA! It is like offering a talented musician a great stage piano but saying he has to not use his feet (like the Yip Man movie). Well foolish from the musicians perspective but strategical perhaps in terms of market share. Still I believe if you wanna earn money then add a great keybed and some free pedals like Kawai and then you will have a great market share

The looks? It is fine to me. You know fashion is a funny thing. It changes. The music is what is important.

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Originally Posted by Djengis
Nice music Peter and nice bumby film although the sound quality could be improved I guess.
I guess you are from either Great Britain some where, or an aussie. I lean towards my first guess: Perhaps due to the buildings and your Elton John type of music. I have lived in the UK myself.

Bumpy film and Elton John!
Has it come to this? (looks for a hard wall to bash his head on; finds only plasterboard ones)

Never been an Elton fan. And the bumpy film was what the camera and me experience on our roads now! Bike riding is a bumpy business even without accidents; you either love it or hate it.
But that is the Bike and the DGX from my viewpoint; they both gave me what I want. I do not want perfection, it's sterile.

Pity about the stand being extra. I'd noticed that too. But they're not too expensive and maybe some special offers may come your way!


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