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Estonia Pianos
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Very nice. Glad the story had a happy ending.
It's not completely over yet, but the finish line is in sight! smile


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!

Current:
1998 PETROF Model IV Chippendale
LEGO Grand Piano (IDEAS 031|21323)
YAMAHA PSR-520

Past:
2017 Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony
1991 Kawai 602-M Console in Oak
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,396
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A friend of mine has an older Petrof grand, which is the only Petrof I’ve seen and played. She called it a “poor person’s Steinway”. It’s a satin ebony and a very distinctive and beautiful case. I’ve only looked at the website because AFAIK there’s no one selling new or used Petrofs in town. The Petrofs do look gorgeous. From the one example I played, they sure sound as gorgeous as they look.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
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Sounds as if you have a fine deal on your old piano as part of a trade. Would he take a consignment? Just thinking-- if you really need a grand, in the same general size/price bracket as Seiler, there are a few alternatives, if not at that dealer. An Estonia dealer might have more trade-ins to choose from. In NYC, there are buckets of rebuilt Steinways. Not sure if they get quite down to new Seiler prices, but if you treat this guy fairly without locking in your purchase with him, you have more choices.

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Piano is being delivered next Thursday morning! (4/15/21)

I am trying to get excited about it, but there is lots of exhausting real-life drama right now which is taking my mind off the piano. It's too bad, too, because this is one of the Top 5 moments of my life, and I can't enjoy it because of all the other stuff going on. I am taking a floating holiday from work on the delivery day, and the kids should be in school that day, so I will have a few hours to myself to enjoy the piano once it's set up.

I am hoping they let me take a video of the Walter being removed and the PETROF being delivered for a time-lapse. I don't see what they wouldn't, but I get very sensitive about even asking.


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!

Current:
1998 PETROF Model IV Chippendale
LEGO Grand Piano (IDEAS 031|21323)
YAMAHA PSR-520

Past:
2017 Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony
1991 Kawai 602-M Console in Oak
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,131
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Well, if you have other stuff going on it means that the wait won't seem like forever smile


2001 Petrof 125 -> 2002 Petrof IV -> 1999 Bösendorfer 225
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I think it wouldn't hurt to ask if you can take a video. The worst they can do is say No, which would be their prerogative.

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SonatainfSharp - I'm relieved you got such a great sounding and beautiful looking grand piano. I read your initial post and your replies plus a bunch of other people's replies. I saw that you were really distressed and felt bad for you. Glad you are getting it one week from today. Excited for you and looking forward to hearing how you like it when it finally arrives.

That thing sounded great on the phone recording. You'll really be happy.

Stormbringer


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Sonata ----- I'm just starting the race, went to a showroom this past week and played my 1st few
going to another showroom on Sat and a few others lined up for the coming weekends.

Then will take a breather and return again to all the showrooms sometime in June
REPLAYS & any new stock.

I know the salesmen are but I am in ANY HURRY to purchase a piano.
I need to find one the 'speaks' to me.

So far the only one that has spoken to me was a Steinway D that was close to 200k - we all laughed
I asked the salesman if they would consider a $150,000 dealer discount, he was not particularly amused!
LOL
guess he didn't see the humor in that!

Last edited by brdwyguy; 04/08/21 04:56 PM.

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Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
I am hoping they let me take a video of the Walter being removed and the PETROF being delivered for a time-lapse. I don't see what they wouldn't, but I get very sensitive about even asking.

If you ask, they may say "no". If you don't ask...

Get a lanyard that lets you wear your phone on your chest, a la a body cam. They won't even know it's on.

https://gearbeast.com/crossbody-phone-lanyard-w-web-holder/

I think in your own home, you should be able to record if you want to. But I would suggest not doing it when you're looking in other people's windows. wink


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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
I am hoping they let me take a video of the Walter being removed and the PETROF being delivered for a time-lapse. I don't see what they wouldn't, but I get very sensitive about even asking.

If you ask, they may say "no". If you don't ask...

Get a lanyard that lets you wear your phone on your chest, a la a body cam. They won't even know it's on.

https://gearbeast.com/crossbody-phone-lanyard-w-web-holder/

I think in your own home, you should be able to record if you want to. But I would suggest not doing it when you're looking in other people's windows. wink

I agree with Retsacnal, I see no problem at all recording the piano movers in your own home. You could ask the movers if it is OK as a courtesy, but if one of them said no, that would create an uncomfortable situation.

Or, you could ease into the situation and start recording and say something like "hey guys, I wanna video my Walter being removed as a memorial, or something like that.

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
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Originally Posted by brdwyguy
So far the only one that has spoken to me was a Steinway D that was close to 200k - we all laughed
I asked the salesman if they would consider a $150,000 dealer discount, he was not particularly amused!
LOL
guess he didn't see the humor in that!
Way back in the beginning when I was just going to do an even trade for the Walter, I told the dealer that we could just do an even trade for the Bosie 130 that he has had on the floor for over three years, which he himself said likely wouldn't ever sell because at that pricepoint and his customer base, people would just get any number of grands instead. He wasn't amused by my offer. smile


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!

Current:
1998 PETROF Model IV Chippendale
LEGO Grand Piano (IDEAS 031|21323)
YAMAHA PSR-520

Past:
2017 Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony
1991 Kawai 602-M Console in Oak
Joined: Jan 2021
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I'm sure the movers are used to it, as getting a grand piano is kind of a big deal to a lot of people.

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Is tomorrow delivery day?


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“If it sounds good, it IS good.” ― Duke Ellington!



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Tomorrow morning! (Thursday, Central Time Zone)

I haven't had much time to think about it, which is good, I guess.

My 10yo is more excited than I am! I think he will practice piano A LOT just for the sake of annoying his 12yo brother, which means that his brother will counter-annoy by practicing clarinet a lot more. Neither of these scenarios bother me. laugh


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!

Current:
1998 PETROF Model IV Chippendale
LEGO Grand Piano (IDEAS 031|21323)
YAMAHA PSR-520

Past:
2017 Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony
1991 Kawai 602-M Console in Oak
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,297

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Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
Tomorrow morning! (Thursday, Central Time Zone)

I haven't had much time to think about it, which is good, I guess.

My 10yo is more excited than I am! I think he will practice piano A LOT just for the sake of annoying his 12yo brother, which means that his brother will counter-annoy by practicing clarinet a lot more. Neither of these scenarios bother me. laugh

Haha! More practice is good. thumb


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SonatainfSharp - Sounds like you have a couple of fun boys : ) Can't wait to see your delivery day post.

Stormbringer


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Working on Alfred's Adult AIO Book 2
1970's: Took piano lessons. 2021: This old man is giving it a 2nd go.
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Happy NPD, SonatainfSharp! Do post us an audio clip of your new friend! Congrats!

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One of the greatest things about this forum is that so many people can share in the joy of receiving a new piano.

Congrats!


1928 Mason & Hamlin Model A
Play it as a VI HERE and binaurally HERE
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What? No update yet? Now I'm starting to get worried.

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Yes, the piano came yesterday! I didn't post about it yesterday because I was literally playing it the ENTIRE day!

For those of you who just want to see photos, here is an imgur link since I don't even know how to post photos here: https://imgur.com/a/vPZlep2

I will post YouTube links for a sound sample once I get my recording stuff tested and set up. The room is so ambient that I am trying to decide between close-mic'd quality and natural reverb quality. I took a dozen sound samples yesterday, but now I need to work with them.

Anyway, back to the prose-style update:

I took the day off of work. The piano showed up about 8:30am, which was great because they gave me a five-hour window, so it came almost right away. I took photos of the delivery but not a video because I was too anxious to think about video composition. Yes, I think about those things, knowing the whole world could potentially view it via YouTube, so I didn't take a video at all. They were so fast to deliver and set up the grand that it took longer to get the Walter upright out of the basement studio than to set up the grand. They even took the extra time to position the piano within a millimeter of where I wanted it. I guess this would make sense, but they always seem like they are in a hurry. They are the premiere movers from here to Chicago--they have five teams and said that they move 35 pianos every single day. Every. Day. They do all the high-end moving and very complicated moves that no one else will touch. The craziest part was when they had to go up three stairs into the house. They just lifted the grand up and in. Lifted it. Two feet or more into the air. This thing is 5'8" and heavy for a typical grand. I know that they know what they are doing, but that is over 325 pounds per person. Good grief. They did struggle with the Walter, though, which is extremely heavy for an upright of its size. But my stairs into the basement studio are very steep, and each stair is a different height and depth. 1939 house, after all. And they had to go up.

As soon as I played a note, I was so impressed with how the piano sounds in the dining room. We were so worried that we would have to spend all kinds of money designing and installing room treatments, but we don't have to do a single thing. The natural reverb is just the right amount. It truly feels like I am playing in a professional small recital hall. I know that may sound like an exaggeration, but it isn't. I know YouTube videos/recordings will never be able to relay how it actually sounds in the room while playing, but so be it. It's just incredible. You will just have to take my word for it.

This has to be the best-prepped and best-condition PETROF Model IV still in existence. I am sure of it. I am proudly a very experienced-picky customer, and my dealer is the best Bosie-prepper and S&S rebuilder from here to Chicago and beyond, and he knew he needed to impress me because I am a very vocal poster here, and I wouldn't stop bugging him if it wasn't right, but most importantly because my piano is my soul, and after 43 years I really wanted a modest instrument that fit the bill, while never being able to buy a new Bosie or S&S rebuild from him. While the "Roman Numeral Era" PETROF pianos were certainly hit or miss--some spectacular; some just terrible--I feel like I struck gold finding mine, and I would prefer mine to the current incarnations of a PETROF of the similar size hitting almost six-figures. It’s in amazing condition, feels amazing, and sounds amazing. Again, you will just have to take my word for it.

This piano is definitely European in that you put in a little, and it gives back A LOT. You need to really know what you are doing. Was it on these forums that someone posted a quote from a professional concert pianist that said a boisterous American S&S is like playing with training wheels, but then you play a European piano like Faz/Bosie/Petrof and it's like the training wheels are removed? That is certainly the case with this piano. Wow. If your arm weight isn't perfectly controlled when articulating slurs and phrases, this piano will laugh at you. If you go from a few notes to larger chords and aren’t in complete control of the sound of added notes, the piano will spit in your face. You need to understand the differences among the different registers of the piano. But it's worth it.

And like a typical Euro piano, the warm, soft tone gets much brighter as you play harder, as it should, but a lot of American and Asian pianos do not do this. It's like having built in timbre effects. But, anyway, it's like driving a powerful racecar...you need to be careful because if you floor it, then you will quickly get into trouble. And I am still getting used to the singing treble. I am not used to pianos like this. I need to be very careful. And the bass is there but not over-powering. But I was able to stumble through parts of the Rach g minor Prelude with plenty of power if I needed it. It's there, but it isn't in your face unless you ask for it. But in the middle and upper registers--if you ask for a singing line, you will get it without much effort, but you had better be careful with what you wish for, because it will give you more than you need if you aren't paying attention.

The sound is so unusual. Woody. Earthy. Warm. Soft. Unlike a lot of Petrof pianos that come with over-lacquered hammers from the factory, expecting the dealer to tweak them. My dealer did all the necessary prep on this used piano. He put as much effort into this 23yo Petrof as he does his brand new Bosies and S&S rebuilds. Why? I don't really know, but it came without additional cost of the piano, and I appreciate it far more than I can articulate here. Despite the amazing condition of this piano, he does want to re-hammer it, though, just to make it even better—not because it needs it right now. He has the hammers all picked out and everything; I just need to tell him to go ahead. I will probably wait a few years, though. I am not sure why he is so attached to this piano—probably because he would have been the guy who literally sold this exact piano back in 1998, and knowing what he knows now and didn’t know back then, maybe it’s a second-chance for him to make the piano the best it can be. It is certainly in much, much better condition now than when it was sold new.

What was even more wonderful yesterday than playing the piano was realizing that my kids are going to have the experience of a conservatory/performance-quality instrument from the very get-go. My 10yo is the pianist in the family while the 12yo is the clarinetist, but they both will have access to this quality of piano from the start. I learned piano on a toy-ish keyboard and my mother's accordion books and eventually organ books. I got a real piano with I was 13 because I started actual piano lessons, and the keyboard I had didn't have enough notes. My parents scraped together $50 a month to pay for a small Kawai console that was on clearance for $3,000 in 1991. I wore that thing out in less than a year, and my tech didn't even want to bother spending time on it, but I dragged that piano around with me until 2017 when I got the Walter. It served its purpose, but had I known I was college/pro-bound, it would have been nice to have a better instrument until I got to use the college resources (and later the studios' resources). Anyway, my kids get a nice piano from the very start. My 10yo already said that he is never going to move out when he is an adult because he doesn't ever want to not live with the new piano!

As far as my now-gone Walter. Good riddance. I don’t really know what to say or what I should say or what I can say on a public forum such as this. When I tested them out, they were used from the 1990s and they were incredible. But my 2017 Walter was not the same Walter that I tested. Not even close. They are a great brand and everything, but I don’t know. I know way more about them and some issues that they are having (not just mine) that sort of changes my opinion. I am not in a position to get into it as I am just a nobody on the Internet, but I can say that my Walter needing to be re-pinned is not a one-off thing. Nor are the weird notes in the tenor. I heard some sound samples of other pianos with close serial numbers to mine, and they all did it—I could even hear it on a crappy YouTube recording. Plus I got to play another one in person. Great brand, but they aren’t the same Walter from the 1990s when I think they were their best. That is all I will say about it, I guess.

Looking back four years, I was trying really hard to convince myself that my Walter was amazing. It was all I could fit into my studio and afford at the time, and when it was delivered with issues from the get-go, I didn’t know what to do. I felt like I had no other options, like I didn’t deserve better, so I had just better shut up and appreciate what I got, and three techs said there was nothing to do. But it was never okay. It was never anything close to the used ones I tried from the 1990s. It wasn’t the same piano whatsoever. I am not bashing the brand; I will still recommend them to people who want a grand-piano sound in a 46” case and all that, but it wasn’t the piano for me no matter how hard I tried to convince myself that it was.

On the bright side, I would never have been able to step up to a grand piano had I not had the Walter in the first place. I am not at liberty to share numbers, but the Petrof never would have happened without the four years of the Walter.

But I don’t need to worry about that Walter anymore! Never! Now to just get through my workday so I can play the PETROF again! Having this new piano makes me want to go back and relearn every single piece I ever learned and performed over the past few decades. And even though modern classical piano music is still my main jam and it sounds good on the PETROF, I have to admit that I played music standard to the canon yesterday for the first time in over 20 years! It’s crazy to play Chopin and be able to voice the melody so easily. And to play Lieb 3 and voice the inner melody among the busy accompaniment without any effort at all. Not to mention the modern music sounding less abrasive! It’s all so wonderful to play!

Well, it looks like this post is also 1998 words, the same year as the PETROF and same as my post that started this whole thing!


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!

Current:
1998 PETROF Model IV Chippendale
LEGO Grand Piano (IDEAS 031|21323)
YAMAHA PSR-520

Past:
2017 Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony
1991 Kawai 602-M Console in Oak
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