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nsiac Offline OP
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Hey guys, some of you most certainly have more experience than me but here's my opinion.

The 775 action is heavier than the P-125 but it's nothing crazy. I mean, you can still play, and if you push everything down with the help of your arms, it's fine, it might even help develop hand and fingers muscle. The 775 is heavier than the 745, and as you say it's lighter than the 785. I don't like the 785 design so I didn't even take it into consideration.

Why did they make the 775 "heavier" than the 745? The 775 has the GrandTouch action which is described as the top action for digital pianos? It's supposed to be better than the GrandTouch-S.

My question was mainly if it's *better* to get used to an action similar to the 775 compared to a lighter one like the P-125 and if it's normal that I need time to adapt.

I've tried to set Soft 1 or Soft 2 and the sound is louder, meaning I need less force to produce louder sounds.

And again, if you listen to some renowned people like Tony from Bonner's, the 775 is a real pleasure to play, way better than the 745 (the 775 has longer keys just like an acoustic piano).

There are also many reviews in German from consumers that are saying just amazing words about it. I feel like, especially in this forum, people started hating against the 775 just for the heavier action vs the 745 and that acted like a snowball. I've read countless of pages in this thread (http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...lavinova-clp-700-series.html#Post3101821) and most of them are hating it. Then some people towards the last pages are actually saying to not exaggerate that fact just because others have said it.

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Originally Posted by nsiac
Why did they make the 775 "heavier" than the 745?
To sell more 785s.

I would have purchased a 775 myself if it had a similar action to the 785 as the 775 is very reasonably priced here: only about $2,900 + tax.

As a few of us have mentioned over the thread: you could easily fix the problem using a screwdriver, deft usage of a dremel, and some small brass weights smile

Of course that may (will) void your warranty.

Last edited by Burkey; 04/04/21 09:21 PM.

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Originally Posted by nsiac
The 775 has the GrandTouch action which is described as the top action for digital pianos? It's supposed to be better than the GrandTouch-S.
Sneakily, Yamaha have 2 different GrandTouch actions (actually 4 GrandTouch actions if you count the CLP-675 & CLP-685).

The CLP-775 has no counterweights it its version of the GrandTouch action.
Whereas there CLP-785 does have counterweights in its GrandTouch action.

This accounts for the 20% extra force pushing back up on your fingers in the CLP-775.

Sure after 20 mins playing you may not notice much difference, but after an hour or two you certainly will.

Last edited by Burkey; 04/04/21 09:29 PM.

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Originally Posted by EinLudov
"Too Heavy" is not a good description.
For a grand piano action - which is what Yamaha is marketing it as - it is too heavy.

However if you're looking for a heavy upright action then it's not too heavy, it's totally fine.

Last edited by Burkey; 04/05/21 12:18 AM.

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Originally Posted by EinLudov
You have the right to that personal opinion
1. All opinions on this forum are personal opinions - it's a bit redundant to bold or even mention that obvious fact smile
2. Several other esteemed forum members also hold that same opinion.

As I mentioned several times (both here and elsewhere on this forum): if you like heavy upright actions you will be right at home with the 775. But a lot of people (I would say the vast majority of people) appreciate lighter actions more.

Last edited by Burkey; 04/05/21 12:26 AM.

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Yamaha likes to confuse people very much about DP actions. In the CLP-7xx series we have (from the simpler to the top one):

GrandTouch-S (v1): plastic keys, (fake) escapement
GrandTouch-S (v2): wooden keys (white only), (fake) escapement

GrandTouch (v1): wooden keys (white only), (fake) escapement, 88-key Linear Graded Hammers
GrandTouch (v2): wooden keys (white only), (fake) escapement, 88-key Linear Graded Hammers, counterweights

When there is an added feature compared to the previous action, I used a bold text. Notice I added "v1" and "v2" to distinguish between the basic version of an action and the slightly better one. Unfortunately Yamaha doesn't use different names (and that's very confusing to me)...

What I don't understand from the specs is:

- does the GrandTouch actions have longer keys compared to GrandTouch-S?

- being that the GrandTouch versions have 88-key Linear Graded Hammers, does this mean that the GrandTouch-S versions have the same weight for each key?

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Originally Posted by magicpiano
- does the GrandTouch actions have longer keys compared to GrandTouch-S?
Yes. This has been discussed many times in a separate thread.
And "S" means "Small".

Originally Posted by magicpiano
- being that the GrandTouch versions have 88-key Linear Graded Hammers, does this mean that the GrandTouch-S versions have the same weight for each key?
GrandTouch-S versions have several weight zones, while 88-key Linear Graded Hammers imply individual weight for each key.

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Originally Posted by 9190
Originally Posted by magicpiano
- does the GrandTouch actions have longer keys compared to GrandTouch-S?
Yes. This has been discussed many times in a separate thread.
And "S" means "Small".

Originally Posted by magicpiano
- being that the GrandTouch versions have 88-key Linear Graded Hammers, does this mean that the GrandTouch-S versions have the same weight for each key?
GrandTouch-S versions have several weight zones, while 88-key Linear Graded Hammers imply individual weight for each key.
That could be the next 'pivot length' thing grin. Loads of DP reviews mention graded hammer actions, often with a diagram that implies that the grading actually is 'linear' whereas it seems this is not always the case. Being somewhat ignorant I initially assumed that they were all 'linear' but... I'm not sure how much difference it makes in practice, but if playing say a chord across the split point does one have to make allowances? And, of course, if it really makes no difference, why bother doing it properly? My current 'DP' has basically a synth-style action, plastic bendy bits at the key-stick roots and a lump of rubber underneath (high-tech stuff from the last century eek) so no 'grading' there, but it's easy enough to adjust to playing it after an acoustic.
Anyway, so I wonder which actions are linearly graded - all Kawai, Roland, Casio etc. It would be nice to know.


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Originally Posted by 9190
[...]GrandTouch-S versions have several weight zones, while 88-key Linear Graded Hammers imply individual weight for each key.
Ok, thanks for the info. I wonder how many people are able to distinguish between an 88-key linear graded keyboard and an action divided in 4 differently weighted zones, and if this would make a difference in playing...

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I had a 4 zones graded hammer and was unable to feel the gap between two different zones.


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How do you know this? What makes you think this is so?
Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by nsiac
Why did they make the 775 "heavier" than the 745?
To sell more 785s.
That a conclusion is consistent with a premise does not prove the conclusion. Look it up.

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Originally Posted by magicpiano
I wonder how many people are able to distinguish between an 88-key linear graded keyboard and an action divided in 4 differently weighted zones, and if this would make a difference in playing...

It's one of those things, if you're not specifically looking for it, you'd hardly notice.

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You know, sometimes I’m not looking for it, the bezel on my tv, but once I notice it I can no longer enjoy the show because all I can think about is that damn bezel! Why don’t we have holographic imaging for the home, still? Such a slow moving industry, yet I keep buying them outdated boxes with huge bezels!

I want nothing between me and the show; I want to be able to almost-touch the scenery, change the score to my liking, and kill-off any actor I don’t like (of course, this will require a script re-write.........Well, I also want to do that, too!).

And here we go day-in day-out complaining about how slow the digital piano industry moves, yet tv’s and the content they display (movies, documentaries, etc..) are still boxed-in since their inception and I don’t hear anyone complaining about that!

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I've never noticed ... not even when "looking for it".
Originally Posted by EinLudov
Originally Posted by magicpiano
I wonder how many people are able to distinguish between an 88-key linear graded keyboard and an action divided in 4 differently weighted zones, and if this would make a difference in playing...
It's one of those things, if you're not specifically looking for it, you'd hardly notice.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
You know, sometimes I’m not looking for it, the bezel on my tv, but once I notice it I can no longer enjoy the show because all I can think about is that damn bezel! Why don’t we have holographic imaging for the home, still? Such a slow moving industry, yet I keep buying them outdated boxes with huge bezels!

I want nothing between me and the show; I want to be able to almost-touch the scenery, change the score to my liking, and kill-off any actor I don’t like (of course, this will require a script re-write.........Well, I also want to do that, too!).

And here we go day-in day-out complaining about how slow the digital piano industry moves, yet tv’s and the content they display (movies, documentaries, etc..) are still boxed-in since their inception and I don’t hear anyone complaining about that!

Some of us never watch them. They contain nothing of interest. And those James Bond films look dead in the water now and have done for a long time.
Why do they show such tosh?.


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Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by nsiac
Why did they make the 775 "heavier" than the 745?
To sell more 785s.
Until you can come up with concrete proof that that's the reason, it's only based on your belief.


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Originally Posted by Beowulf
Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by nsiac
Why did they make the 775 "heavier" than the 745?
To sell more 785s.
Until you can come up with concrete proof that that's the reason, it's only based on your belief.
Thanks for pointing out my silly mistake:
It's obviously to sell more units of the 785 and the N1X smile

Last edited by Burkey; 04/05/21 08:44 PM.

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Originally Posted by magicpiano
Originally Posted by 9190
[...]GrandTouch-S versions have several weight zones, while 88-key Linear Graded Hammers imply individual weight for each key.
Ok, thanks for the info. I wonder how many people are able to distinguish between an 88-key linear graded keyboard and an action divided in 4 differently weighted zones, and if this would make a difference in playing...
Even using key weights and measuring them I don't believe you can show this.

Indeed quite the opposite:
I bet I can prove using weights that the 775 and 785 actually don't have perfectly linear weighting - that Yamaha is lying!
Actually I'll do that as my first YouTube review in my 'All cons, no pros!' series smile

The only piano I've even measured that was evenly weighted wasy C.Bechstein Academy 124, and that was handmade in Germany. I don't believe that many factory assembled models are very well regulated.

Last edited by Burkey; 04/05/21 08:57 PM.

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nsiac Offline OP
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Back to my initial second question.
I feel like my ears are still more used to and find more pleasant the sound of the Yamaha P-125 with the default piano voice (CF Pure).

Contrary to the never-ending debate about the key weight, looks like I'm the only one with this idea.

I read everywhere that the CFX and the Bosendorfer are way better. I'm curious to know why and why I can't support this yet.

Maybe because I haven't yet played pieces of music that prove these are more authentic and overall "better" voices than the P-125's one?

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by nsiac
Back to my initial second question.
I feel like my ears are still more used to and find more pleasant the sound of the Yamaha P-125 with the default piano voice (CF Pure).
I agree with you there. I owned a P-125 for 6 months last year and enjoyed the sound from it just as much as my CLP-745.

Sound is very subjective - perhaps our ears/brains are just less fussy than other Yamaha enthusiasts?!

Additionally, if you do want a noticeable improvement in sound quality then you will need to invest in a software sample library (like VSL's Synchron Concert D-274, Garritan CFX, Noire, Mercury etc) or a software synthesizer like Modartt's Pianoteq 7.

Last edited by Burkey; 04/05/21 10:58 PM.

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