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nsiac Offline OP
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Hi everyone, this is my first post here!

Last year I got myself a Yamaha P-125 and I finally started learning to play the piano, which I've always loved.

I really liked and enjoyed the P-125 (I still do). These days, I wanted to upgrade it and get myself something that gets closer to an actual piano. After some research I've decided to stick to Yamaha because I absolutely love the Polished Ebony finish on the Clavinova series.

After some research, I've decided to buy the Yamaha CLP 745. I waited for the day that was supposed to return in stock but the date got postponed to May 20th, most likely due to the global situation.

I didn't want to wait until then (too excited for it), so I've decided to get the Yamaha CLP 775 which also has a beautiful touch screen compared to mechanical plastic buttons of the 745. And I've read it's supposed to have a more authentic action due to the longer pivot of the keys (GrandTouch compared to 745's GrandTouch-S).

Now, here are my questions. I've tried to search everywhere on the web but I feel like this is specific to my situation and I thought it would be better to ask you guys. smile

- The keyboard is very different than the P-125 and if I have to be honest, I seem to be more comfortable playing on the P-125. It's probably because I'm already used to, of course, but the CLP-775 is heavier. The question is, is it all normal? I can also notice the "escapement" that it's not present on the P-125. What I'm trying to say is: is this all part of the process and that's why the 775 is closer to an actual real piano than the P-125? Do I just need more time to get comfortable with the new action? Because it seems the 775 has an amazing keyboard based on what I read, I just don't "appreciate it" yet, if you know what I mean.

- Something similar when it comes to the sound. The 775 has the main CFX and Bosendorfer sounds that are supposed to be the very top of what Yamaha has to offer. Thing is, I really do like the CF Pure sound that my P-125 has. It's really different and to me it sounds more bright, almost more pleasant to hear, compared to the CFX that seems to be darker.

To sum it up, I would like to hear an opinion from you guys, because my new piano is supposed to be way ahead of the P-125 in terms of action and sounds but I just don't feel it yet. And if it happens because I'm still learning and I need more time, it's totally fine, I'm more than willing to learn more and start appreciating it.

I hope I was able to make you understand what I'm feeling and hopefully you'll give me your feedback/opinions about it. smile
Thank you guys!

Last edited by nsiac; 04/03/21 12:23 PM.
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I had the DGX 650 which arguably had a slightly better sound than the P125 because of its speakers and the tweaking you could do internally from the menu. But it'd be pretty close.
I still miss the sound and maybe the feel. CFIII is preferable to me as well; but the Bosendorfer and particularly some of the derivatives (warm grand, jazz grand on my P515) are really good and more than compensate.
You'll need time to adjust to both sound, voicing and touch. I'd bet it won't be long before you do make that transition, and really start to enjoy the 775 and appreciate the differences you'll encounter as you discover its capabilities.


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So right now, you've made a large investment, and in your mind there's a great deal of dissonance. Is this better, is this sound right, is it suppose to be heavy like this, was it all worth it ?

Ignore those thoughts, and explore the instrument. In the end, how great it is will all be in your head. That doesn't make it any more or less real. Just feel it.

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nsiac Offline OP
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Originally Posted by peterws
I had the DGX 650 which arguably had a slightly better sound than the P125 because of its speakers and the tweaking you could do internally from the menu. But it'd be pretty close.
I still miss the sound and maybe the feel. CFIII is preferable to me as well; but the Bosendorfer and particularly some of the derivatives (warm grand, jazz grand on my P515) are really good and more than compensate.
You'll need time to adjust to both sound, voicing and touch. I'd bet it won't be long before you do make that transition, and really start to enjoy the 775 and appreciate the differences you'll encounter as you discover its capabilities.

Originally Posted by EinLudov
So right now, you've made a large investment, and in your mind there's a great deal of dissonance. Is this better, is this sound right, is it suppose to be heavy like this, was it all worth it ?

Ignore those thoughts, and explore the instrument. In the end, how great it is will all be in your head. That doesn't make it any more or less real. Just feel it.

Thank so much for the time to reply first of all!

When you say "you will appreciate the differences you'll encounter and the capabilities of the 775", what are the first ones that come to your mind? What are the things that, with the time, you really appreciate by using a digital piano like the 775 compared to a portable one like the 125? It's probably a beginner question but I'm really curious.

I totally agree with what you say, EinLudov. A large investment comes with those questions. I am totally willing to explore the instrument! Technically I have 14 days for deciding whether keep it or return it. Not that I'm thinking of returning it, but just checking with other people, probably more experienced, if it really needs time to adjust to and if my questions are normal.

Excluding the portability aspect which I am not interested, would there be actual reasons to prefer an instrument like the P-125 compared to a way more expensive one like the Clavinova 775? Thanks a lot again.

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Leaving aside your q. about actual reasons for prefering the cheaper instrument; if you can return the 775 and await the 745 I would do so. It's what you initially wanted.


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You need to adapt to the new action. Give it two weeks.


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nsiac Offline OP
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Originally Posted by peterws
Leaving aside your q. about actual reasons for prefering the cheaper instrument; if you can return the 775 and await the 745 I would do so. It's what you initially wanted.

Hi there! May I know why would you recommend getting the 745 instead of the 775? Yes, I initially wanted the 745 but not for a very specific reason. I think I've read somewhere that the action was lighter. But I've also read that the 775 action is way better (GrandTouch compared to the GroundTouch-S). And I must say the 775 looks majestic with the touchscreen that turns off to a completely black look. More than happy to hear your thoughts.

Originally Posted by Tyr
You need to adapt to the new action. Give it two weeks.

Indeed, I perfectly understand a new action needs time. Was/I'm just curious to hear why the action (and the sound) is considered way better.

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Originally Posted by nsiac
The keyboard is very different than the P-125 and if I have to be honest, I seem to be more comfortable playing on the P-125. It's probably because I'm already used to, of course, but the CLP-775 is heavier. The question is, is it all normal? I can also notice the "escapement" that it's not present on the P-125. What I'm trying to say is: is this all part of the process and that's why the 775 is closer to an actual real piano than the P-125? Do I just need more time to get comfortable with the new action?

You are correct that the 775 is too heavy - it's about 60% heavier than the P-125's action. If you like the rest of the design then purchase the 785 which has a 20% lighter action than the 775.

Even if you do get used to the 775 it will still be making your fingers work harder than they need to - it will still tire you out faster and reduce your enjoyment. It's therefore false economy to choose the 775 over the 785 purely based on purchase price.

Last edited by Burkey; 04/04/21 01:56 AM.

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I had pieces of music to test try any keyboards with regarding piano purches. For me, the expensive ones were nigh on impossible to play, presumaby because my fingers weren't used to it. Lighter ones seemed fine on the Yamahas.
That might be me; my fingers are arthritic and it's not certain that the piano action is the cause of this.
But I had pain with the DGX which has the lighter feel; I had less with a Roland I had , and that on my P515 seems OK.
It's impossible to advise you on this matter; there are too many parameters, age, wealthe, finger ondition, ability, etc.
Good luck.


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Originally Posted by Burkey
You are correct that the 775 is too heavy - it's about 60% heavier than the P-125's action. If you like the rest of the design then purchase the 785 which has a 20% lighter action than the 775.

Even if you do get used to the 775 it will still be making your fingers work harder than they need to - it will still tire you out faster and reduce your enjoyment. It's therefore false economy to choose the 775 over the 785 purely based on purchase price.

"Too Heavy" is not a good description. It is Heavier than GHS for sure, if someone plays advanced classical repetoire on a 775 he's going to need proper technique which fully utilizes the falling of the hands by gravity to depress the keys.

Many people who complain about a certain action or another for heaviness are often finger driven players who either missed or was never informed of how to pull sound vs pushing sound. A complete player requires both. A heavier action demands it.

Last edited by EinLudov; 04/04/21 08:56 AM.
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This guy doesn’t seem to be having any trouble with the 775, and he’s just running a little ‘quick test’. He also claims ‘the 775 feels more like the grand in his school’. Granted, he did not mention the school, and if it’s anything like a ‘High School’, I assume that the grand in question has seen better days, but still, it’s a grand, and he says the 775 resembles it, some!






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PianoWorld and affiliates do not necessarily endorse Pete’s onions; his onions, of which he has a full bag, should be taken with a grain of salt (and maybe a little pepper).

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Originally Posted by EinLudov
Originally Posted by Burkey
You are correct that the 775 is too heavy - it's about 60% heavier than the P-125's action. If you like the rest of the design then purchase the 785 which has a 20% lighter action than the 775.

Even if you do get used to the 775 it will still be making your fingers work harder than they need to - it will still tire you out faster and reduce your enjoyment. It's therefore false economy to choose the 775 over the 785 purely based on purchase price.

"Too Heavy" is not a good description. It is Heavier than GHS for sure, if someone plays advanced classical repetoire on a 775 he's going to need proper technique which fully utilizes the falling of the hands by gravity to depress the keys.

Many people who complain about a certain action or another for heaviness are often finger driven players who either missed or was never informed of how to pull sound vs pushing sound. A complete player requires both. A heavier action demands it.
You are missing the point that the 785 has a 20% lighter action than the 775.

That is indeed the main difference (other than the speakers) between those two models.

So if you are correct, then explain why Yamaha has deliberately made their premium model 785 action 20% lighter than the 775 action?

Last edited by Burkey; 04/04/21 09:28 AM.

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Originally Posted by Burkey
You are missing the point that the 785 has a lighter action than the 775.

So if you are correct, then explain why Yamaha has deliberately made their premium model 785 action 20% lighter than the 775 action?

Adding counterweights to keys is a time consuming manual endeavor. This greatly slows down the assembly line process, which is why they stratify it as an upsold-feature. It is not correct to blanket 775 as too heavy, just because the 785 has counter weights.

I am not partial to heavy actions either, but it's certainly not TOO heavy given the right technique. When we cut too closely and say all heavy actions are bad, that's not giving it a fair shot.

Think about what you're saying, because joe is 1 inch shorter than steve, steve = too tall.

Steve can be too tall to ride a merrygoround, but not the ferriswheel or slingshot. 775 is NOT too heavy with the right playing style.

Last edited by EinLudov; 04/04/21 09:52 AM.
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Originally Posted by EinLudov
Originally Posted by Burkey
You are missing the point that the 785 has a lighter action than the 775.

So if you are correct, then explain why Yamaha has deliberately made their premium model 785 action 20% lighter than the 775 action?

Adding counterweights to keys is a time consuming manual endeavor. This greatly slows down the assembly line process, which is why they stratify it as an upsold-feature. It is not correct to blanket 775 as too heavy, just because the 785 has counter weights.

I am not partial to heavy actions either, but it's certainly not TOO heavy given the right technique. When we cut too closely and say all heavy actions are bad, that's not giving it a fair shot.

Think about what you're saying, because joe is 1 inch shorter than steve, steve = too tall.
20% is not 1 inch - unless Joe is 5 inches tall. Are you from Lilliput perchance?!

20% in this case is up to about 13 grams, which is quite a significant and very noticeable difference.

Last edited by Burkey; 04/04/21 10:00 AM.

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Originally Posted by Burkey
20% is not 1 inch - unless Joe is 5 inches tall. Are you from Lilliput perchance?!

20% in this case is up to about 13 grams, which is quite a significant and very noticeable difference.

There is no disagreement that 775 is heavier than 785, but what qualifies that circumstance to merit the descriptor that it's too heavy. You can't just say that about all heavy actions because you personally like lighter actions. There are benefits to heavier systems, just as there are benefits to lighter ones.

Last edited by EinLudov; 04/04/21 10:11 AM.
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Originally Posted by EinLudov
Originally Posted by Burkey
20% is not 1 inch - unless Joe is 5 inches tall. Are you from Lilliput perchance?!

20% in this case is up to about 13 grams, which is quite a significant and very noticeable difference.

There is no disagreement that 775 is heavier than 785, but what qualifies that circumstance to merit the descriptor that it's too heavy. You can't just say that about all heavy actions because you personally like lighter actions. There are benefits to heavier systems, just as there are benefits to lighter ones.

JoeT explained this well earlier:

Originally Posted by JoeT
There are four occasions where we can measure key weight of an acoustic piano:

1. Key up: heavy (hammer and damper weight on the key)
2. Key down: lighter (hammer escaped)
3. Key up with pedal: less heavy (damper lifted) - here we get the 50 grams number
4. Key down with pedal: lightest (damper lifted and hammer escaped)

Digital piano folded actions get three of those four wrong:

1. Key up: heavy - right
2. Key down: heavy - wrong (hammer weight still on)
3. Key up with pedal: heavy - wrong (hammer weight doesn't get lighter)
4. Key down with pedal: heavy - wrong (hammer weight still on, doesn't get lighter)

No wonder that people consider digital actions as "too heavy". They are. Obviously you can make the digital action lighter, by turning the first right into a wrong as well.

Almost ALL digital piano actions are too heavy: so why in heaven's name would anyone ever willingly choose to pick the heaviest one of the entire series?!

Last edited by Burkey; 04/04/21 10:22 AM.

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Originally Posted by Burkey
Almost ALL digital piano actions are too heavy: so why in heaven's name would you ever willingly choose to pick the heaviest one of the entire series?!

You have the right to that personal opinion. I personally do not think it's too heavy in any way given the right use of gravity, even if I like yourself prefer lighter actions.

Last edited by EinLudov; 04/04/21 10:26 AM.
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Burkey is almost right. I wouldn't say that ALL digitals are too heavy. But most are. And Yamahas more than most others.

Regardless of "technique" ... too heavy is too heavy.

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My N1X feels quite heavy compared to all DP I have tested (CLP6xx, LXxx, CAxx), but I really enjoy it.


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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Burkey is almost right. I wouldn't say that ALL digitals are too heavy. But most are. And Yamahas more than most others.

Regardless of "technique" ... too heavy is too heavy.
No, not really. No.


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