2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
69 members (bilb, ambrozy, BlakeOR, Amy H, anotherscott, brdwyguy, Animisha, AWilley, 12 invisible), 652 guests, and 614 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 41
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 41
Hello everyone. I've been enjoying reading this forum for the past several months, but I just signed up today, and this is my first post. This is a wonderful community and I have learned so much.

I've been playing piano since I was 8. Went on to major in music in college. Then I fell out of practice for a bunch of years for reasons I won't get into.
I'm married now, and have an 11YO son who is taking lessons, and that has inspired me to get back into practice. For all the bad things about covid, one benefit about the past year is that it has afforded me the time to get back into practice. And I have certainly been enjoying playing again. My piano teacher often said, "with music, you'll always have a friend."

Currently we have my wife's 1980's Baldwin Acrosonic console piano. Our son is at the point where he would benefit from a better instrument. My mom has a 1980's Young Chang G-185, which is the piano that I had growing up. And she recently offered the piano to us -- she would love to see my son enjoy it. We are considering taking it, but also feel badly about taking it from her because she plays too. And we like to play the piano when we visit. The piano is also almost 40 years old and is at the point where it could use some attention, starting with regulation and dampers. Sadly it also developed a small crack in the soundboard. It's not buzzing, but does make me hesitant to spend money on it beyond tuning. So we are looking into other options.

Our budget for a piano is pretty modest -- about $10k or so. We can stretch it if something compelling comes along.
I've been to all of the local piano stores in my area. One of them I learned about from this forum. I've also been looking at private sales. I have certainly learned a lot in these past few months.
My ear is not as discerning as it was when I was younger. Pretty much everything over my budget is impressive to me. And my ear is good enough to recognize the linear relationship between cost and quality. My challenge is finding something that I like within my budget constraints.
The possibility of taking mom's YC piano is both a blessing and a curse. I know that YC is not a high-end manufacturer, but it is a decent piano, and I like it a lot. I am hesitant to spend the money on anything comparable, because I feel that I could just take mom's piano.
My piano tuner thinks I'm crazy. He says that it's crazy to spend $$$ on a piano when mom's is available. But he ALSO says that if I spend the money to fix up the YC, I'll have spent all that money, and it still would not have as much value as a better piano.
So complicating my decision is that I am focusing my search on handmade pianos. I've played several used Steinways in various states of repair. Not surprisingly, I haven't found any that I like within my budget. I played a few Baldwin R's which I liked and can afford. I played a Kawai RX2 which was my top choice, but I wasn't quick enough, and it sold.
At some of the local stores, I've played a few Estonia L-168 models. Beautiful piano! Slightly more than I'd like to spend. And my wife isn't sold on the wood finish.
Not that I could afford them, but I also enjoyed playing pianos from Bechstein, Hoffmann, Bluthner, and new Steinways.
I recently played a Seiler 6' which is less than the aforementioned brands, and I liked it, but it's still above my budget.
I also played a bunch of older Mason & Hamlin A and B models. In fact a mutual acquaintance of my son's piano teacher offered a 1915 A to us for free. It works and plays nicely. But at that age it needs some work. I'd want to have it refinished, restrung, regulated, and soundboard repaired before taking it into my home. That would likely exceed my budget, so I'm not sure it would work out.
This weekend I'm checking out a Schulze Pollmann 190. Not familiar with the brand I'm not really sure what to expect, so I'm going in with an open mind.


Anyway, thank you for reading. I'll certainly keep you posted. And I welcome any thoughts any of you may have.


2011 Estonia L190
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 195
Full Member
Online Content
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 195
PeterV
if you haven't yet - READ Larry Fine's BIBLE for Piano Lovers
You WON'T be sorry.

I bet there isnt a person on this forum that hasnt read it!

https://www.pianobuyer.com/

brdwyguy


JDM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,379
J
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,379
Hi, Peter.

I wish you all the best in your search for a piano. My suggestion is to take your time to learn all you can and decide what is right for you and your son. And, yes, Larry Fine's book is a must!

An alternative to a purchase...have you considered simply trading pianos with your mom? Move the Young Chang to your house and the Baldwin to your mom's? Especially since you like the Young Chang?

Note of Interest: Grammy Award Winner Solo Pianist/Composer Peter Kater loves Young Chang pianos!

Jeanne W


Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 108
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 108
Are you only shopping for a brand new piano? With 10k, you have LOTS of choices with used pianos! You can definitely get a really nice one for that money.

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 41
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by sharra
Are you only shopping for a brand new piano? With 10k, you have LOTS of choices with used pianos! You can definitely get a really nice one for that money.
Thanks for the reply! I should have clarified in my original post, I am primarily looking at used pianos. However I have noticed that my taste and my budget don't align when it comes to pianos. When I have gone to some of the local showrooms to play used pianos that they advertised, they were "okay." But when I sit down at the newer pianos, the shortcomings of the used ones are immediately apparent.
For example, I went to a store in NY last week to check out their used inventory. They had a few used models to choose from in my size & price range from Yamaha, Kawai, Baldwin, and Petrof. But then I also played some of the new Baldwins and also a Seiler. There's just no comparison. That's not to say that the used pianos couldn't be prepped to perform better. But they weren't.
Better example... I went to a store near me a few weeks ago specifically to play a used Baldwin R that they just got in. It played beautifully. I connected with that instrument and would be very happy with it. I liked it better than the Steinway B across the room. That store also has a used Estonia 168, which I also liked -- in fact I like certain attributes of the Estonia better, and certain attributes of the Baldwin better. Then the salesman made the mistake of suggesting that I check out a Hoffmann (new). It combined everything I loved about the Baldwin and everything I loved about the Estonia. It was just about perfect, except that it was well above my budget. And after that I knew that I would not be happy with the either the Baldwin or the Estonia.
I've played a bunch of Steinways in the $10k range, and so far I have been less than impressed. At that price, they tend to be older and in need of some work. Great for somebody who has to have a Steinway and who has the budget to do the work. Not so great for me. I used to think that Steinway was the pinnacle and I aspired to own one. Now, thanks to this group, I have learned about so many other brands to consider. And I think that I have also realized a personal preference for the European sound moreso than the American sound.


2011 Estonia L190
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,145
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,145
Originally Posted by brdwyguy
PeterV
if you haven't yet - READ Larry Fine's BIBLE for Piano Lovers
You WON'T be sorry.

I bet there isnt a person on this forum that hasnt read it!

https://www.pianobuyer.com/

brdwyguy

And our latest issue just posted!


Piano Industry Consultant

Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 41
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by Jeanne W
An alternative to a purchase...have you considered simply trading pianos with your mom? Move the Young Chang to your house and the Baldwin to your mom's? Especially since you like the Young Chang?

Note of Interest: Grammy Award Winner Solo Pianist/Composer Peter Kater loves Young Chang pianos!

Jeanne W
Yes, that was actually the original plan. And that plan is largely what is complicating this decision, although not in a bad way. Since we have that opportunity, we can take our time shopping and know that we don't have to settle for something just because it fits our budget. And any piano that we look at is weighed against that possibility.

Last edited by PeterV73; 04/02/21 08:12 AM. Reason: made shorter

2011 Estonia L190
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,238
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,238
This is an excellent list of staff picks, lots of very worthy and affordable pianos on here, including my Cunningham Studio grand. 😍

https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/staff-picks-recommendations/


Lisa

Playing RCM 7-8 repertoire
Cunningham Studio Grand & Yamaha CLP645

"I tell my piano the things I used to tell you." - Frederic Chopin
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,803
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,803
You can use pianomart.com and put in a filter to restrict search to your area. You live fairly close to large population areas, there should be a lot of pianos pop up if you keep watch for a few months.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,574
S
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,574
Hi Peter,

Yours is an interesting story. There are a couple of things that haven't been mentioned. You've mentioned being offered some older pianos (M&H A from 1915). At that age it would probably need a complete rebuild including a new sound board. The swings of humidity in New England are such that in 100 years the sound board is most likely not salvageable. Besides if you're paying for new strings and pin block you might as well replace the sound board. Obviously, that's over your budget.

One other thing that gets mentioned fairly often here is that new pianos are like new cars. The moment they're your property they are a used instrument and their value depreciates significantly.

It's obvious you've played some instruments significantly outside your budget. That's a good thing it helps you understand what a truly fine piano can play and sound like. Unfortunately, it also tends to make one seek ways to expand their budget. That's not always a bad thing if you can afford it. Buying a piano is not something that's done many times in one's lifetime, certainly less often than one buys a car. I suggest you reconsider your budget and look for the best piano you can afford.

OTOH, if you're very patient you may get lucky and find that diamond in the rough. Good luck.


Steve Chandler
composer/amateur pianist

stevechandler-music.com
http://www.soundcloud.com/pantonality
http://www.youtube.com/pantonality
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 41
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by Steve Chandler
It's obvious you've played some instruments significantly outside your budget. That's a good thing it helps you understand what a truly fine piano can play and sound like. Unfortunately, it also tends to make one seek ways to expand their budget. That's not always a bad thing if you can afford it. Buying a piano is not something that's done many times in one's lifetime, certainly less often than one buys a car. I suggest you reconsider your budget and look for the best piano you can afford.
Steve, thank you for the reply and the wisdom! We have set $10k as a somewhat arbitrary budget. It's a little bit more than we would spend to recondition mom's piano, which is still a possibility for us, and as mentioned previously I do like that piano.
I can't really justify spending a lot more than that because I am just a hobbyist, and we have other financial obligations. Our son is taking lessons and is displaying talent, but he's also still a kid, doing kid stuff. i.e. a lot of fooling around. If he really starts to take piano seriously in a few years, we'll scrape together more money for a better instrument.

So what we are left with is cheap, beat up old pianos, in which case the answer is take mom's. Or really nice expensive pianos that we cannot afford, in which case we take mom's.
In between that, there are also pianos that are comparable to mom's. In which case, we would probably take mom's. So it's starting to look like the obvious answer.
But before we pay for moving and reconditioning, we are looking for that diamond in the rough that you mentioned.
I should also mention that it's difficult to get too excited about a piano smaller than 6' since that's what mom's is. So even fine instruments such as a Steinway M, M&H A, Baldwin R, Seiler 186, Estonia 168... They are wonderful instruments. But why would I spend that much when i have a 6' at my disposal?

I am also very much enjoying the process of shopping around and playing lots of different pianos!


2011 Estonia L190
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,130
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,130
Hi Peter! Since you're willing to be patient, maybe your tech could keep an eye out for you in case one of his clients is selling their piano. Regarding size, I think if the right piano comes along, you might not care that it's less than 6'. Maybe it'll have a little less bass but if you love the touch and tone, that's what matters. I think there are a lot of good options in the 5'8" range, especially if you're on a budget. I don't think you should count those out smile


2001 Petrof 125 -> 2002 Petrof IV -> 1999 Bösendorfer 225
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 108
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by PeterV73
Originally Posted by sharra
Are you only shopping for a brand new piano? With 10k, you have LOTS of choices with used pianos! You can definitely get a really nice one for that money.
Thanks for the reply! I should have clarified in my original post, I am primarily looking at used pianos. However I have noticed that my taste and my budget don't align when it comes to pianos. When I have gone to some of the local showrooms to play used pianos that they advertised, they were "okay." But when I sit down at the newer pianos, the shortcomings of the used ones are immediately apparent.
For example, I went to a store in NY last week to check out their used inventory. They had a few used models to choose from in my size & price range from Yamaha, Kawai, Baldwin, and Petrof. But then I also played some of the new Baldwins and also a Seiler. There's just no comparison. That's not to say that the used pianos couldn't be prepped to perform better. But they weren't.
Better example... I went to a store near me a few weeks ago specifically to play a used Baldwin R that they just got in. It played beautifully. I connected with that instrument and would be very happy with it. I liked it better than the Steinway B across the room. That store also has a used Estonia 168, which I also liked -- in fact I like certain attributes of the Estonia better, and certain attributes of the Baldwin better. Then the salesman made the mistake of suggesting that I check out a Hoffmann (new). It combined everything I loved about the Baldwin and everything I loved about the Estonia. It was just about perfect, except that it was well above my budget. And after that I knew that I would not be happy with the either the Baldwin or the Estonia.
I've played a bunch of Steinways in the $10k range, and so far I have been less than impressed. At that price, they tend to be older and in need of some work. Great for somebody who has to have a Steinway and who has the budget to do the work. Not so great for me. I used to think that Steinway was the pinnacle and I aspired to own one. Now, thanks to this group, I have learned about so many other brands to consider. And I think that I have also realized a personal preference for the European sound moreso than the American sound.

Ahh OK you are looking for a grand? I thought you were looking for an upright... in which case, 10k is not a very big budget unfortunately.


Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Identifying Grieg Music!
by Amy H - 05/14/21 02:45 PM
Hand Development and the Thumb
by Ghostnotes - 05/14/21 02:41 PM
Interesting Craigslist find: Knabe Grand
by D.P. - 05/14/21 01:41 PM
Pipe Organ built into a house
by FrankCox - 05/14/21 12:59 PM
Rotatur cuff damage
by PhilipInChina - 05/14/21 11:23 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,931
Posts3,093,481
Members101,517
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5