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In terms of the form factor of a new NV 15/20, it is amusing to speculate on the shape they will chose. Will they stick to the asymetrical look of a baby grand for pretense ? Or will they follow the Bauhaus rule that form follows function ?

They need to house a grand action, various speakers pointing in different directions including a pair of beefy woofers, and some form of grand-mimicking horizontal soundboard.

The latter will be the most difficult to fit. I suppose an elliptic or round shape is ideal. Can it be equipped with different tranducers for bass and treble, in different locations ?

All in all difficult to manage in a compact modern look.


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Does anyone have any details on the touchscreen music rest on the upcoming Novus grand? Hopefully it will allow you to digitally display a few pages of music side by side. If I could do that with Henle Urtext, that would be awesome. Will it be a 4k screen? Will I be able to play PS5 on the music rest and through the piano speakers? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Vikendios
In terms of the form factor of a new NV 15/20, it is amusing to speculate on the shape they will chose. Will they stick to the asymetrical look of a baby grand for pretense ? Or will they follow the Bauhaus rule that form follows function ?

All in all difficult to manage in a compact modern look.

I hope they choose a shape which is angular and menacing. Bit bored with gentle slopes and curves.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
I wonder if it would’ve been better for Kawai to have released the NV-10 in a modified upright-acoustic cabinet with a soundboard and a grand piano action.

Granted, this cabinet would’ve had to be a little deeper than a conventional upright-acoustic cabinet to accommodate the grand piano action, but the truth is that the NV-10 and N1X are not necessarily conventional when it comes to looks, so perhaps it could’ve worked aesthetically.

I agree, I wouldn't mind a "deeper NV5" with a grand action, although it could look ... bulky? I prefer the looks of a baby grand like the N3X, but I think I value more first how good the speaker (/soundboard) setup is.


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Originally Posted by asus1099
Does anyone have any details on the touchscreen music rest on the upcoming Novus grand? Hopefully it will allow you to digitally display a few pages of music side by side. If I could do that with Henle Urtext, that would be awesome. Will it be a 4k screen? Will I be able to play PS5 on the music rest and through the piano speakers? Thanks.

It's been a long time since the Roland HPi50E when a piano had a built-in screen able to somewhat display scores. I believe the problem is that tech is moving too fast for such systems not to become quickly obsolete, whereas pianos are viewed as longer term investments.

The current practice of most concertists is to use the larger iPad with some form of page-turning device (pedal) and forScore software. I guess you could link this tablet with your piano's sound system to achieve your purpose.


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If Kawai were to bring out a Novus in baby grand shape, with a soundboard, priced at around 20-25% above N1X, they would own the high-end market. It should certainly be possible.


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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
If Kawai were to bring out a Novus in baby grand shape, with a soundboard, priced at around 20-25% above N1X, they would own the high-end market. It should certainly be possible.

I would assume in order to have a soundboard big enough to make a difference, they would NEED a real baby grand size (and not a truncated one like an N3X). And at that point...maybe a GL10 with ATX would be around the same price? They would be using the same sensor system and roughly similar sound engine.

We're already seeing that with the N3X. For the same price, a GB1K-SG2 is roughly the same price. Now if they're exactly the same form factor, there's not much sense going with the "pure hybrid" (sorry Mac) over the silent IMHO.


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Gombessa, I don’t think we necessarily need a ‘full’ soundboard, so the piano could be as small as the N3X, so long as Kawai complements the ‘modified’ (smaller) soundboard with speakers; basically what they do with the NV5 which uses a modified soundboard complemented by speakers.

It seems like this approach has worked well for Kawai in the past with the CA9X, and obviously now with the NV-5.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Gombessa, I don’t think we necessarily need a ‘full’ soundboard, so the piano could be as small as the N3X, so long as Kawai complements the ‘modified’ (smaller) soundboard with speakers; basically what they do with the NV5 which uses a modified soundboard complemented by speakers.

It seems like this approach has worked well for Kawai in the past with the CA9X, and obviously now with the NV-5.

I really don't know anything about soundboards, but to me, even the CA99's sound board looks pretty big compared to the surface area on an N3X:

[Linked Image]

How much soundboard is enough to create that "real piano sound?"

And another thing I've always wondered, what's the difference between the NV5's sound board and the CA-99's? Kawai's had soundboard pianos for a long time now, and between the CS-10, CS-11, CA-97/98/99 etc., they've always had their supporters and detractors, but none have been universally praised like the NV-5. So is it really the soundboard, or is it something else about the piano?


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I'm also suspecting how much better the NV5 sounds like compared to the NV10, CA99 or CS11. I will have to play the NV5 in person to determine that.


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
I really don't know anything about soundboards, but to me, even the CA99's sound board looks pretty big compared to the surface area on an N3X:

[Linked Image]

How much soundboard is enough to create that "real piano sound?"

Maybe Kawai will add the same soundboard at the back?

[Linked Image]

But then again, being large enough for the soundboard AND deep enough for the action might make the piano bulky 🤔 - I already find the NV10 quite "bulky" compared to the N1X.

As you say Gombessa, the question of how much soundboard is needed/enough, is still up in the air for me. I'd be content with a powerful (deep but not "boxy" bass) speaker setup. I was told somewhere on this forum that the N3X has a sort of soundboard, but it's quite small. Yet I remain very impressed with the N3X sound (not the samples tho, just the sound projection).


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Originally Posted by navindra
If the magnificent Novus NV10 is being discontinued, I would imagine it's because it's not profitable anymore or not practical for them to produce any longer due to new realities... not because they are shipping a next gen product that they will not be able to stock or support. That would be quite a tragedy though.

Strangely enough, my local dealer dropped the price of the Novus NV10 by €700, even though in other stores, it's still the same it has always been (€8.879, in Europe, give or take €10 or €20). While waiting for my own NV-10 (which still needs to have its F4 and G5 keys regulated), I've continually checked several big stores and my own dealer's website.

When my NV10 came in, the dealer got two for his own stock, and it showed as "in stock" when I got mine. Two days later: out of stock. I've checked Thomann, MusicStore, and others... Some of them NEVER get the NV-10 in stock (they're already sold before they are stocked), and if they do because they bought 2, it's in stock for 1-2 days, and then out of stock again.

My dealer said he sold almost 40 NV-10's in 2020 (of which mine was the last in 2020) and it's impossible to keep in stock. My dealer is a well known, but not huge shop in the Netherlands, and only one of 3 Kawai Selection Centers for both digitals and acoustics. (And a Yamaha Premium dealer, and Technics Preferred Dealer before Technics quit on the music instrument front).

Assuming my dealer is not lying to me when he tells me that he has sold almost 40 NV-10's in one year (edit: I now realize could have misheard that, and that he said "sold almost 40 NV's in a year", so including the NV5, because he also does that with other instruments as well sometimes), I can't imagine Kawai dropping the NV-10; I can imagine them introducing an NV-20; maybe one with a sound board, and the new (but apparantly, not improved) firmware, _along_side_ the NV-10 as an even higher-end option.

I'm going to find a setting I like (after I figure out what the firmware stores where, and which setting influences what), so I can make a favorite for the speakers, headphone and pianoteq. I don't need the 10 rendering characteristics to get 10 "almost Kawai piano's"; I just choose one, set it how I like, and that will be it for the NV-10. Variety will come from PianoTeq (the Ruckers Harpsichord and historical piano's), which are very different from the Kawai sound. Personally, after my F4 and G5 keys get regulated a bit better (*), the NV-10 would be more than good enough for at least 10, maybe 15 years. Maybe even longer.

(*) Kawai was VERY slow at picking this up. I reported the issue to my dealer, who reported it to Kawai. They sent me a mail "fill out this form", which I did.... 5 times in the course of over a month, and then I had to have my dealer intervene to actually get them to move. Now I received a mail from a local piano repair/technician shop, so I assume someone will (finally) come out and fix the F4 and G5 keys. (They work, but repetition is less than the other keys, and sometimes they drop notes while playing ppp / pp, where other keys around them don't.)

Last edited by Falsch; 04/01/21 08:55 AM.

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Agreed it would seem strange to withdraw the NV10 when it’s apparently selling very well (7 months waiting list) and absolutely killing the only competition (Yamaha N1X) on performance. Unless there’s a problem with manufacturability / reliability / warranty costs which can’t be fixed by a simple revision to the existing design.

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Originally Posted by Showpan2
Agreed it would seem strange to withdraw the NV10 when it’s apparently selling very well (7 months waiting list) and absolutely killing the only competition (Yamaha N1X) on performance. Unless there’s a problem with manufacturability / reliability / warranty costs which can’t be fixed by a simple revision to the existing design.

How absolute is this? The action on the Nv10 is supposedly only slightly better (reflected in a price that is higher), however the quality of samples is arguable with enough people praising the Yamaha CFX samples, both the 4-channel samples and multi-speaker setup (compared to only stereo-samples on the Kawai through multi-speaker setup) or the binaural CFX samples through headphones. We don't have any real statistics but if we have to judge from the two big threads on this forum, there's a comparable number of people who purchased both, and if we adjust for the fact NV10 was released a year earlier than N1X. "Absolutely killing" would be when you sell at least 10 Kawai-s for each Yamaha. I hardly doubt that's the case.

Last edited by CyberGene; 04/01/21 01:38 PM.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
How absolute is this? The action on the Nv10 is supposedly only slightly better (reflected in a price that is higher), however the quality of samples is arguable with enough people praising the Yamaha CFX samples, both the 4-channel samples and multi-speaker setup (compared to only stereo-samples on the Kawai through multi-speaker setup) or the binaural CFX samples through headphones. We don't have any real statistics but if we have to judge from the two big threads on this forum, there's a comparable number of people who purchased both, and if we adjust for the fact NV10 was released a year earlier than N1X. "Absolutely killing" would be when you sell at least 10 Kawai-s for each Yamaha. I hardly doubt that's the case.

Though I LIKE the NV-10 action better than the AvantGrands, yeah I would have to agree with this. The two are really functionally equivalent. I think it speaks volumes that a significantly more expensive, smaller distribution range product is competitive with a Yamaha offering (maybe that's enough to be "killing it"), but I honestly see it as a toss-up for any consumer making a choice between the two. As an NV-10 owner, I wouldn't personally say the NV-10 is categorically superior. There are pluses and minuses to each that will appeal to different people.


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@Falsch: I'll send you a PM, if you can share the name of your dealer: much appreciated!

As for NV10 vs N1X (or maybe NV5), already torn for weeks. I thought I made up my mind in getting a N1X - clearly not yet. Each of those 3 hybrids are very impressive products, each with their own strenghts (CFX! smoother action! Binaural! Soundboard!) and quirks.

On one of the quirks: At one hand we've got the N1X which basically sports the same display as my vintage Yamaha PSR-600 keyboard from the nineties (!) and the exact same way of changing settings (by using the keyboard) as my CLP-300 from the late eighties (!!). On the other hand we've got Kawai who just cannot seem to get a decent UX on their touch screen and who are struggling with the app. Then again, with the N1X you need to buy a dongle to use the (good) Yamaha app. Like serious, you'd expect both companies to be able to get their act together. At least with buying the N1X I'll feel right at home with those interfaces, I've been using them for decades...

Really curious if this thread is just an April fools joke. If so: Well done! :-)

Last edited by rmnd; 04/01/21 03:45 PM.
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If you were mainly only using a vst like garritan cfx, and never used headphones to play and relied solely on speaker quality which would you get, NV10 or N1X?

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I haven't heard many people who use the piano speakers for VST-s. It rarely sounds good because they are optimized for the internal sound, not for general audio playback. That being said, Garritan CFX sounds very lush through the N1X speakers. A plus is that it has an audio interface, so a single USB cable takes care of MIDI and clean digital audio.


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Originally Posted by mwf
If you were mainly only using a vst like garritan cfx, and never used headphones to play and relied solely on speaker quality which would you get, NV10 or N1X?

I think the conventional wisdom swings towards the NV-10 in this case, since it arguably has more focus on both its action and its speaker system, over the N1X. A lot of the benefits of the N1X - the binaural headphone audio, the multichannel output, etc., don't come into play. As Cybergene mentions, the built-in audio interface on the N1X is a plus, due to the single-cable convenience (and not having to worry about potential ground loops or analog noise).

In reality, if you try both, who knows which you will like better (it could really be either, since they're really closely matched). My guess is it would come down to how much you like the action on each.


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I haven't heard many people who use the piano speakers for VST-s. It rarely sounds good because they are optimized for the internal sound, not for general audio playback. That being said, Garritan CFX sounds very lush through the N1X speakers. A plus is that it has an audio interface, so a single USB cable takes care of MIDI and clean digital audio.

The NU1X Speakers are really good for VST playback. Also the NV5 with its Soundboard delivers a solid experience. On the NV10 it was awkward as heck.


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