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Originally Posted by SeaDrive
Originally Posted by Ralphiano
I was influenced in this decision by a YouTube pianist, whose name I do not recall at the moment, who makes wonderful sounding music with his VPC1, and perhaps Pianoteq, using what he describes as default settings, or, very nearly default. His videos have been cited in discussions on this forum on several occasions, and proved to me that nice sounds can be made without tinkering with the settings.

...

P.S. I decided my post would be incomplete without identifying the YouTube pianist referenced. So, I searched. He is Phil Best, and the video that influenced me is: [u]Phil Best on the art of sonority[/u]

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Phil Best uses a Roland HP605 as his Pianoteq controller, not a VPC1. Also, when he talks about not modifying the default settings, I'm pretty sure he's referring to the Pianoteq presets, not the controller's velocity curve.

You are correct. I went back and listened and he was really talking about Pianoteq defaults, not VPC1 defaults. I think his video had an impact on me as I had lengthy struggles to "cure" Pianoteq's sound by tinkering with its settings. His video got me to rethink the approach I was taking.


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Hi everybody!!

After waiting for ten weeks for my order to arrive, I am SO happy to join this club! But the thread is 12 pages long, so I hope you'll forgive me if I ask a question that may have been asked before.
Yesterday, I plugged in my VPC1 to my laptop and it connected with Pianoteq and started working immediately. Now, I have started to read the manual, and it says: "Download the Kawai VPC Editor Software ..."
So here is my first question: is there any use for this software when I use Pianoteq anyway?
Thank you!

Animisha


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Originally Posted by Animisha
Hi everybody!!

After waiting for ten weeks for my order to arrive, I am SO happy to join this club! But the thread is 12 pages long, so I hope you'll forgive me if I ask a question that may have been asked before.
Yesterday, I plugged in my VPC1 to my laptop and it connected with Pianoteq and started working immediately. Now, I have started to read the manual, and it says: "Download the Kawai VPC Editor Software ..."
So here is my first question: is there any use for this software when I use Pianoteq anyway?
Thank you!

Animisha

Yes, you can use that software to create your own custom touch/velocity curves, or select a few (I think 4) curves Kawai already has built in collaboration with Pianoteq and a few others.


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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Originally Posted by Animisha
Hi everybody!!

After waiting for ten weeks for my order to arrive, I am SO happy to join this club! But the thread is 12 pages long, so I hope you'll forgive me if I ask a question that may have been asked before.
Yesterday, I plugged in my VPC1 to my laptop and it connected with Pianoteq and started working immediately. Now, I have started to read the manual, and it says: "Download the Kawai VPC Editor Software ..."
So here is my first question: is there any use for this software when I use Pianoteq anyway?
Thank you!

Animisha

Congratulations, I hope you enjoy it as we do!

There are 5 selectable velocity curves on the VPC1. They are selected by keeping the power button pressed and pressing one of the top octave black keys with the VPC1 already powered on. You can see with the application which curve is assigned to each setting and change it or edit it.

My take here is using one of the default curves and letting the tweaking to the VST. Pianoteq has its own default curve on the VPC1. That one is fine for it. For other VSTs, I use mostly the standard or hard curves and then tweak it on the VST if needed.


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The VPC1 Editor also has an individual key velocity adjustment. This is useful if you have individual keys that are louder or softer than others. It allows you to adjust the velocity response of each key, or even an entire range of keys, should that be needed.

Regarding the velocity curve menu already mentioned, it allows you to design and save custom velocity curves, as well.


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Thank you for your answers!

Originally Posted by EB5AGV
There are 5 selectable velocity curves on the VPC1. They are selected by keeping the power button pressed and pressing one of the top octave black keys with the VPC1 already powered on. You can see with the application which curve is assigned to each setting and change it or edit it.

My take here is using one of the default curves and letting the tweaking to the VST. Pianoteq has its own default curve on the VPC1. That one is fine for it.

This is what I have done, combined with a neutral version of Pianoteq. The result is stunning, absolutely stunning. Such a clear tone, so beautiful! I'll wait a couple of months before downloading the kawai editor software, because first my playing needs to adjust itself to VPC1. But it is So Good!! I am so, so happy one key on my old DP broke, so gradually the idea arose to buy the VPC1.


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Originally Posted by Ralphiano
The VPC1 Editor also has an individual key velocity adjustment. This is useful if you have individual keys that are louder or softer than others. It allows you to adjust the velocity response of each key, or even an entire range of keys, should that be needed.

Yes, very interesting point. Regarding this, please note that any key correction should be done in all curves if you want it to be applied at all settings. My VPC1 had a couple notes which needed some trimming down. As I bought it used, I don't know if they were that way from start. All in all, not a big deal. I just edited it at all curves, saved it, and forgot about that wink


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Glad to hear that you really like the VPC1, Animisha. I have one on order (was supposed to arrive mid-March, but I never believed that would happen), but I was having second thoughts and doubts (maybe it's too much money just for a controller, maybe I'm better off with the ES920, maybe I should just stick with the P121, maybe, maybe, maybe!), but hearing how much you like it has stiffened my resolve to stay the course and wait for it.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, as you become more comfortable with it, particularly how it compares to your previous DP. Onward and upward! smile


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Ah SeaDrive; I thought by now you would have got your VPC1! It's a hard wait.

I think here what really matters is whether one likes Virtual Instruments enough to categorically reject onboard sounds (modeled or sampled). If you're in that category - the VPC1 is a no brainer. A truly exquisite product with virtually no competition.


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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Originally Posted by SeaDrive
Glad to hear that you really like the VPC1, Animisha. I have one on order (was supposed to arrive mid-March, but I never believed that would happen), but I was having second thoughts and doubts (maybe it's too much money just for a controller, maybe I'm better off with the ES920, maybe I should just stick with the P121, maybe, maybe, maybe!), but hearing how much you like it has stiffened my resolve to stay the course and wait for it.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, as you become more comfortable with it, particularly how it compares to your previous DP. Onward and upward! smile

Hi SeaDrive,
How long have you been waiting? I had had to wait for ten weeks. During this time, one night I had severe buyer's anxiety, and the next day I checked all reviews of different controllers again, and it was very obvious that if you want a controller that is most like an acoustic piano, it is VPC1 you'll need to buy. One thing I have been sure about though, was that I wanted to buy a controller, because I also love Pianoteq, its sound and its functions. One day, it literally dawned on me - why pay any money for a beautiful piano sound in a digital piano when I already have a beautiful piano sound in Pianoteq that I want to keep using anyway? I think VPC1 is incredibly cheap when I think about the quality-price balance.
I have always been quite satisfied with my DP (Casio privia px150) but this is so, so much better.

I hope your VPC1 arrives soon, and that you'll be as happy as I am. (I wasn't quite as happy before I found the Pianoteq preset though...)


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I've been waiting about six weeks now, Animisha. Not that long, really, it just seems long.

I also have Pianoteq, and I like it quite a bit more than the piano sounds that are built in to my P121. Part of that is undoubtedly the Pianoteq presets, which have customized settings for reverb, delay, equalization and compression that I either can't, or am too lazy to, set in the P121. For whatever reason, the sounds of the various pianos when I use Pianoteq are so lovely that they make me want to play more, which is always a good thing! smile

If I may ask, what speakers/monitors are you using with the VPC1? When mine finally arrives, choosing the right sound output system will be my next chore.

MMathew, yes I've decided that virtual piano is the way to go for me, at least for now. I don't see a "real" piano coming into my life at any point in the near future, so "virtual piano" it is.


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Originally Posted by SeaDrive
I've been waiting about six weeks now, Animisha. Not that long, really, it just seems long.
I know how it feels!

Quote
I also have Pianoteq, and I like it quite a bit more than the piano sounds that are built in to my P121. Part of that is undoubtedly the Pianoteq presets, which have customized settings for reverb, delay, equalization and compression that I either can't, or am too lazy to, set in the P121. For whatever reason, the sounds of the various pianos when I use Pianoteq are so lovely that they make me want to play more, which is always a good thing! smile
Same here!

Quote
If I may ask, what speakers/monitors are you using with the VPC1? When mine finally arrives, choosing the right sound output system will be my next chore.
Sennheiser headphones. smile I don't want to drive the neighbours insane and I am basically always using headphones.


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Originally Posted by EB5AGV
Originally Posted by Ralphiano
The VPC1 Editor also has an individual key velocity adjustment. This is useful if you have individual keys that are louder or softer than others. It allows you to adjust the velocity response of each key, or even an entire range of keys, should that be needed.

Yes, very interesting point. Regarding this, please note that any key correction should be done in all curves if you want it to be applied at all settings. My VPC1 had a couple notes which needed some trimming down. As I bought it used, I don't know if they were that way from start. All in all, not a big deal. I just edited it at all curves, saved it, and forgot about that wink

You seem to believe that the individual note velocity settings can be made and saved for each velocity curve. I am not under the same impression. I believe that the individual note velocity settings apply globally to all of the velocity curves, not just to the one being used at the time of making individual note velocity settings. In other words, my belief is that when you make adjustments to the individual key velocities, those adjustments will be implemented any and every time you play the VPC1, regardless of how many times you power the VPC1 up or down, and regardless of how many times you switch from one velocity curve to another. Those settings remain in effect until the next time you change them.

Do you have any references from Kawai, or others, that elaborate on the individual note velocity editor function?


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Hi.

I'm considering getting a home work station and a VPC1 controller.

I understand VPC1 keys are not standard length.

How long are they - the visible/playable length from fallboard to tip?

I've not been able to find specific measurements, so I hope someone will provide this info and also maybe add a few thoughts on how much of an adjustment it is to play on shorter keys.

For comparison: the keys on my S&S grand: white 5 13/16; black 3 7/8".

Jeanne W


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oops

Last edited by Ralphiano; 04/01/21 11:42 PM.

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My VPC1 measures:

White keys: 5 13/16"
Black keys: 3 13/16"

The exposed parts of the keys are standard acoustic piano size.

I wonder if you have been exposed to conversations in which it is alleged that the VPC1 has a "pivot" distance that is shorter than a grand piano, and mistook the comments to mean the length of the exposed portion of the keys.

The shorter pivot length is an oft mentioned difference between the VPC1 and either other Kawai digitals (MP11SE, and some of the very expensive console digitals), or actual acoustic grand pianos. The term "pivot length" refers to the distance from the playing end of the key and the balance rail inside the piano which serves as the key's fulcrum. The shorter the pivot length, the less fine control you have over the key and the piano mechanisms that are activated by it. And, playing very close to the fallboard requires slightly greater physical effort to depress the key.

As for me, I do not find the shorter pivot length of the VPC1 much of an issue. I can switch back and forth from VPC1 to acoustic without problems. It is noticeable, but easily manageable.

The VPC1 is an excellent keybed.


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I am reading through this whole thread (a few pages per day) and I got stuck here.

Originally Posted by EB5AGV
I find the VPC1 curve for Pianoteq a bit too heavy, which is good for easier dynamic control, but different from my only real direct reference (my Yamaha U3H)

What does this mean? confused


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Originally Posted by Ralphiano
oops
I did it again.....

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Hi, Ralph.

I do believe I've read specifically in some reviews or customer comments the keys are "shorter" (I'm not sure exactly where) and also about the pivot point location which enters into the equasion. You've likely hit the nail on the head about the pivot point causing confusion over the true length of the keys.

One thing I can say for sure, I just spoke the other day to a Kawai authorized dealer, and the shop employee specifcally told me the keys on Kawai VPC1's are shorter than on the MP11.

Your explanation about the pivot point and how it affects makes it very clear how it affects playability - thank you!

I've phoned two local shops hoping to find a brick and mortar store where I can experience a VPC1 for myself. No luck...

One shop owner says they've never stocked VPC1s and offered MP11, ca49 or ca59 (she says those 3 have the same action) as alternatives adding the action is very different from the VPC1.

The other shop owner says he's had them on the floor but rarely, and only the dead keyboard itself, he never had it hooked up to a vst. He lets people come in with their own vsts and hook everything up to try the VPC1 out. I figure if he had it hooked up to a sound, more customers would hear it and fall in love with the good vst sound along with the superior feel of the keybed and buy both the VPC1 and the software to go along with it - from his shop (hopefully!). I therefore asked him, why not do that? He says VPC1s are difficult to get, even before C-19 hit. And he's not tech savvy. I guess understandably the business model doesn't work for those reasons.

I'm wondering how many PW members were able to try a VPC1 at a local brick and mortar shop before deciding to buy one?

Jeanne W

Last edited by Jeanne W; 04/02/21 05:57 AM.

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Just out of curiosity I measured white and black keys from "fallboard" (if one can call so in both my DPs case) to key tip

ES8: 6" and 4"
RD2000: 6 1/16" and 4 1/16"

I assume you subtracted the felt width from your measurements.

FWIW on both my DPs, C to C width is 6 1/2".

Originally Posted by Ralphiano
My VPC1 measures:

White keys: 5 13/16"
Black keys: 3 13/16"

The exposed parts of the keys are standard acoustic piano size.


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
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