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Joined: Mar 2021
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I would like to ask you, are you interested in training applications like this one prepared by me?

www.intervals.fun

Simple, I want to decide is there sense to develop this app.

In case of positive answer, I am very interested to know your expectations and experiences with similar applications to make this app as well as I can.

This app should work on all typical devices with a quite modern browsers.

This app at this time is fully royalty free and for sure will stay royalty free for main features in the future.

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I suppose there’s some interest in ear training, but there are already apps (such as Earpeggio) that do this. What new feature do you add?

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I haven't looked at ear training for intervals for about a decade. I like that you have harmonic and melodic intervals within a same unit. Initially I simply clicked on the right spot, i.e. if I heard a P5 I clicked the G since the root note was always C. Then when I added intervals with "+3" and a minor 3rd popped I went "????" - your intervals are by semitones, and it happens that the m3 and 3 semitones both have "3" in common. So this is a different angle from what I've seen before.

What about a broader keyboard, and being able to have a root note other than C?

Are you aiming primarily for guitar?

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Hi Yao, thank you for your post.

Originally Posted by Yao
I suppose there’s some interest in ear training, but there are already apps (such as Earpeggio) that do this. What new feature do you add?

I tried to familiarize myself with Earpeggio before writing this post, but unfortunately I don't have access to a device to install it on at the moment. I will write about this issue at the end of my post.

1) Regarding the features itself.

As the project is in its early stages, the main functionality is as simple as possible at this point. Drawing an interval, presenting it and letting you guess. Apart from that, you can choose the set of intervals drawn.

What makes my application different from the programs I know.

a) Full control over the presentation of the interval - playing melodic, harmonic and both sounds independently. All mentioned with the possibility of repeating at any time and any number of times.
b) Full control over the difficulty level. The user decides which intervals are randomized. In this way the user can choose the level of difficulty and the range of learned intervals by himself according to the pace of his development.
c) Different naming of intervals or sounds, also for people not familiar with the theory. Moreover, the interval naming is also coded by presenting the keyboard layout.
d) By using Frank Wen's soundfonts, a bonus is the choice of sounds like piano sound, different guitars, choir and a few others.
f) All the above features are available to the user within a single screen.

===

Other than that, there are other aspects than purely functionality.

2) Accessibility

The example of the referenced Earpeggio demonstrates this problem. This program is only available on three kinds of Apple products. A rough estimate is that such devices have about 20% of the global market share.

a) My program should be available on almost all devices that have a quite modern browser and support audio. My intention is that it will work on smartphones, tablets, laptops and computers. Regardless of the operating system.
b) No installation required.
c) No need to register, provide an email address, log in via other platforms or social media, or even accept cookies, etc. Just write 13 characters and play.
d) The only problem is the need for constant internet connectivity. Maybe in the future this problem will also be solved.


3) Interface design.

There are many different ways to do interaction with user and different people may have different preferences. I hope to appeal to the widest possible audience. wink

Thanks again for your interest and best regards.

(Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version))

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Hi Keystring, thank you for your post.

Originally Posted by keystring
I like that you have harmonic and melodic intervals within a same unit.

I am glad that you noticed that.

Originally Posted by keystring
Initially I simply clicked on the right spot, i.e. if I heard a P5 I clicked the G since the root note was always C. Then when I added intervals with "+3" and a minor 3rd popped I went "????" - your intervals are by semitones, and it happens that the m3 and 3 semitones both have "3" in common. So this is a different angle from what I've seen before.

I feel that my intentions were not read well.

Above the keyboard, where you select the intervals to be drawn, are markings like 0 (zero) and +1, +2, +3, etc. These markings represent consecutive semitones upwards. I decided to use such markings for people not familiar with theory, especially for children. Besides, they can be convenient for guitarists, as they correspond to successive frets on the guitar.

On the keyboard, where you guess the drawn interval, there are markings like m2, M2, m3 etc. These are professional designations so people familiar with professional nomenclature can use them. By the way, people who are not familiar with professional nomenclature can learn them.

I tentatively assume that my intentions are not immediately clear, and thus may have caused trouble in interpretation.

Originally Posted by keystring
What about a broader keyboard, and being able to have a root note other than C?

The project is in its early stages. So far I've only done one root, intervals ranging from m2(+1) to M7(+11), and only ascending. I assume that for a complete beginner such possibilities will provide enough material to assimilate for at least a few weeks.

First, I plan to add descending intervals and the ability to change root. I'm also thinking about a randomly selected root.

Regarding the wider keyboard. Here I have a problem how to fit it on phone screens. I initially assumed that mastering intervals within one octave is already a big success, but your question raises an engineering challenge in me. However, I will definitely have to plan its implementation for further in the future.

Originally Posted by keystring
Are you aiming primarily for guitar?

Actually, the instrument I have mastered the most is the guitar, so I think you exposed me. wink. Regarding application, I think of anyone who plays any instrument, as well as singers and choristers. The keyboard is probably the most versatile way to present the arrangement of sounds and hence I chose it for the main interface code in my application. I am thinking of making an interface presenting the guitar neck in the future, but the goal of making the application to be available on mobile phones, makes this idea a bit difficult to implement.

Thank you also for your interest and best regards.

(Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version))

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Originally Posted by JJozwiak
Above the keyboard, where you select the intervals to be drawn, are markings like 0 (zero) and +1, +2, +3, etc. These markings represent consecutive semitones upwards. I decided to use such markings for people not familiar with theory, especially for children. Besides, they can be convenient for guitarists, as they correspond to successive frets on the guitar.
It took me a bit to clue in to that. wink

Quote
On the keyboard, where you guess the drawn interval, there are markings like m2, M2, m3 etc. These are professional designations so people familiar with professional nomenclature can use them.
They are the common names which also depend on spelling (which makes it tricky to teach). For example, your "m3" can be an "aug 2". Your M6 can be a dim7 (happens in the outer notes of a diminished chord. Your M7 can be an aug6 etc.

So what you are aiming at are the common interval names in simpler music that people learn first. Those names are based on the conventions of written music and spelling (letter names - letters used).

Having the semitones as part of it actually solves the problem of m3 vs. aug2 etc, since semitones are never-changing, the actual "measurement.

An off topic about this:
Quote
(Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version))
Did you take the results "as is", or did you also tweak the outcome to make it sound better? I work as a professional translator these days, and the topic of Deepl comes up on occasion.

Back on topic:
I used to play classical guitar in a self-taught way at a time when I knew no note names and had mostly solfege. I also studied a bit if violin for period. We have semitones to contend with, and awareness of P5 and P4 are also important because of the tuning of the strings (G D A E on violin) and the fact that we have 4 available fingers.

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I like it. I like how with the simple interface you can adjust the difficulty by selecting the intervals. Also selecting the trumpet tone is a nice option because the tone does not fade away.

If you are going to do chords, I definitely suggest that you stay with the same principle of selecting the possible choices. This way you can e.g. concentrate on those ones that you find difficult.

Variations in the root are good, but keep the possibility to have only one root.

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Originally Posted by keystring
It took me a bit to clue in to that. wink

I realize that not everything in my interface is immediately clear, but I try to accommodate many different user needs while having many different constraints. Hence there are many compromises in this program.

Originally Posted by keystring
Quote
On the keyboard, where you guess the drawn interval, there are markings like m2, M2, m3 etc.(...)

They are the common names which also depend on spelling (which makes it tricky to teach). For example, your "m3" can be an "aug 2". Your M6 can be a dim7 (happens in the outer notes of a diminished chord. Your M7 can be an aug6 etc.

So what you are aiming at are the common interval names in simpler music that people learn first. Those names are based on the conventions of written music and spelling (letter names - letters used).

Having the semitones as part of it actually solves the problem of m3 vs. aug2 etc, since semitones are never-changing, the actual "measurement.

I'll try to keep your suggestion in mind, but I can't promise everything. As the program develops, I will see if it will be possible to implement your suggestion.

I would also like to explain where this version of the official nomenclature came from. I took it from the third column of the table from the Wikipedia article. I took this to be the most basic official nomenclature. Indeed, I have not had the opportunity to discuss this with people familiar with the theory. For me, the most important thing is that the user learns to recognize intervals, and their naming is a matter of accepted convention. Naturally, the nomenclature cannot be contradictory to the commonly used one.

Originally Posted by keystring
An off topic about this:
Quote
(Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version))
Did you take the results "as is", or did you also tweak the outcome to make it sound better? I work as a professional translator these days, and the topic of Deepl comes up on occasion.

On the one hand, I wanted to convey my thoughts in the best way possible, but on the other, I have no talent for foreign languages. Hence, I first wrote my answers in my best Polish. I admit that I checked them in an online Polish proofreader and found all the corrections to be correct. Then I uploaded it to DeepL in the belief that it would not be the best quality translation, but only an aid to writing my own translation. And here I admit that the quality of the translation seemed two classes higher than the quality I expected from my own work. First of all, I don't have enough knowledge about expressing dependencies between compound sentences. The DeepL surprised me a lot because the compound sentences he prepared seemed to convey my intentions, although I can only guess at it. Secondly, I have a haggard vocabulary and I tried to prepare relatively simple texts that I would be able to translate fairly independently to do it as quickly as possible. The DeepL used some words that replaced those that were simple and obvious to me. A few words I didn't even know and decided to see if they really meant what I wanted them to mean.

So I copied the text from DeepL in about 99%.

In Polish language the word "features" is translated differently than "functionality" and in the other direction DeepL translated "features" as "functionality", hence in some places I changed "functionality" to "fetures". I also changed "several" to "a few", "brand new browser" to "quite modern browser", "user interaction" to "interaction with user". On the last reading I added something that wasn't in the Polish version, e.g. "kind of". All these changes I made, being convinced that they better reflect my intentions, but I don't know if it was good step. Perhaps DeepL was closer to conveying my thoughts. smile

(All above texts have been translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) - also this time with small my corrections)

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Hi ErfurtBob!

Originally Posted by ErfurtBob
I like it.

Probably the best words a programmer can hear from an unknown user. Thank you very much.

Originally Posted by ErfurtBob
I like how with the simple interface you can adjust the difficulty by selecting the intervals.

That was exactly one of my intentions.

Originally Posted by ErfurtBob
Also selecting the trumpet tone is a nice option because the tone does not fade away.

I am very happy with all the perceived advantages in the program.

Originally Posted by ErfurtBob
If you are going to do chords, I definitely suggest that you stay with the same principle of selecting the possible choices. This way you can e.g. concentrate on those ones that you find difficult.

I promise to walk this path.

Originally Posted by ErfurtBob
Variations in the root are good, but keep the possibility to have only one root.

I plan to do exactly as you suggest.

Thank you so much for taking the time to prepare and share your feedback.

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I have tried a few of the numerous ear training apps and online free programs, thinking that I would become a better pianist by acquiring "perfect" relative pitch. As of today, that goal is presumably not met, but along the journey, I got a better sense of what it takes to be someone called a "musician". I still struggle to distinguish a minor 6 from a minor 7, let alone several octaves apart.

I actually did need some time to figure out what and how your app functions. Now I think that I quite like it. I may emphasize that I deeply appreciate your time and effort in developing this app, knowing how much dedication and passion it needs, whether completely free or with an additional paid premium, as no one can be sure that those premium features will generate anything.

If I may make some comparisons, solely based on my beginner's experience (I will make the best effort to be constructive):

1. Yours has most of the features that I would be interested in. The rather simple UI may lead the first-timers to believe that it has passed its due time, but it is rather the contrary.

2. Your app reminds me of the online free music exercises that I find interesting to use, and certainly fun to challenge as a beginner.
https://www.musictheory.net/exercises

3. Their ear interval training is very similar to what you have made so far.
https://www.musictheory.net/exercises/ear-interval

4. They have many other types of exercise that can make the obstinate, quite frustrated. Perhaps have you gotten inspired by these, or you might be in the future. As I understand it, the online exercises are free, but their apps are chargeable. If you are able to make yours a free app as is, it probably meet some success.

Good job, so far!

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Originally Posted by Man
I have tried a few of the numerous ear training apps and online free programs, thinking that I would become a better pianist by acquiring "perfect" relative pitch. As of today, that goal is presumably not met, but along the journey, I got a better sense of what it takes to be someone called a "musician". I still struggle to distinguish a minor 6 from a minor 7, let alone several octaves apart.

As a self-taught guitarist, my skills are similarly assessed. This is one of the reasons why this app is created for people at this level of musical skill, because I hope I understand the needs of such people. Nevertheless, every other opinion of a person in a similar situation is very valuable to me, because it broadens my understanding, and more than one person has already mobilized me to revise my beliefs. Hence, the more I thank you for taking the time to learn about and review my program.

Originally Posted by Man
I actually did need some time to figure out what and how your app functions.

I try to balance intuitiveness with ease of use and accessibility on all possible screen sizes. In addition, applications with such functionality do not have developed standards of interfaces like, for example, graphic text editors. On the one hand, it's cool, because I can face with creating a new solution. On the other hand, I worry about every user who may give up on this application before they understand it. In January, I released the first version of this application with a much less intuitive interface. Getting average reviews and seeing poor interest, I created the current version a few weeks ago. This version is fortunately getting much more favorable reviews. Hence, at this point, I'm hoping this release works out, as I haven't come up with anything better so far. And if I do come up with something better, it will still take time to implement. wink


I once came across this site and in my opinion, the exercises available online are more for testing skills than to support skill development. I hope to support skill building first by my application.

Originally Posted by Man
If you are able to make yours a free app as is, it probably meet some success.

Thank you for your opinion.

I work on the next release in these weeks and hopefully it will already be a version worth recommending to friends. wink

( Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) )

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For those interested, I would like to inform that I updated the app a few days ago.

www.intervals.fun

Now you can switch intervals between ascending and descending.

You can also change the root from c to c" (C3-C5), although only statically for now. A randomly selected root I hope to add within a couple or so weeks.

I wish you a lot of fun with it.

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I know this is a forum for pianists, but maybe someone will be interested in this information for themselves or a friend.

I have added an interface for guitarists to the app, and also for bass players.

In turn, parents may be interested to know that I have extended the root range to E5 (e''), as it is assumed that the highest children's voices operate from E4 (e') to E5 (e''). This should make it easier to play with children.

As always, I wish you a lot of fun.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


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