2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
69 members (Augustina, Beansparrow, c++, accordeur, Boboulus, Bostonmoores, Buzz209, 17 invisible), 1,466 guests, and 781 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 10 of 18 1 2 8 9 10 11 12 17 18
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 8
M
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 8
Hello

I try to play on my Kawai Ca 99 with Pianoteq /the program which can improve the sound quality of digitalpiano / . Enyone knows haw to turn OFF the sound inside a Kawai CA99 piano's settings menu so that the internal SK-EX rendering is turned off ???

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
R
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
Originally Posted by Maciek1965
Hello

I try to play on my Kawai Ca 99 with Pianoteq /the program which can improve the sound quality of digitalpiano / . Enyone knows haw to turn OFF the sound inside a Kawai CA99 piano's settings menu so that the internal SK-EX rendering is turned off ???
You posted in the wrong owners club.


Randy
Kawai ES110/ES920, Casio CT-X5000
Flute / Alto recorder / Melodica / iPad music apps
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 26
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 26
Thanks Randyman. Yes, very happy with ES920. I'm using rather old Sony headphones which are just okay. I at least know their sound.

I have a nice variant of Warm Grand saved, which is my go to onboard sound. I also get nice results tweaking the SK-EX but still working on that. I also like the Sk-5. I just wish it sounded like an SK-5.

This room is just impossible. 10x10 with a 13ft peak directly over the piano. The room is two feet wider on each side above 8 feet and it's too full of stuff. It probably sounds better 10 feet up. I have some boxes of books directly below the port on the bottom. Significant improvement when those are moved. Some ad hoc sound reflectors (A/C vent deflectors) over the speakers also help. Gets more sound into the room and to the ears and less to the high ceiling. Eventually the room will be less cluttered.

I've recorded a few things and checked the sound standing and from the side and back a few feet. Not much difference.

I ran Pianoteq through the speakers and was pleasantly surprised at how good it sounds compared to any of the onboard sounds. Much less difference between headphones and speaker. It's rare that my laptop is not running so that's what I use the most but am enjoying getting into the onboard sounds more.

The action is a huge improvement. I can already more confidently go to an acoustic piano and just play.

I was thinking of getting a CA99 or NV5 for the great room but will probably save that toward a new or used grand

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 2
W
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
W
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 2
What is the reason the organ sounds are one octave lower than the piano sounds on the ES520?


Steinway K52 Vertigrand 1908
Kawai ES520
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,514
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,514
Originally Posted by wallyworld17
What is the reason the organ sounds are one octave lower than the piano sounds on the ES520?

This is not a topic I am terribly familiar with, however I believe it is related to the concepts explained on this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-foot_pitch

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 5
L
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
L
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by wallyworld17
What is the reason the organ sounds are one octave lower than the piano sounds on the ES520?
I guess, there is no strictly logical reason for -1 octave shift of organ sound.
Shortly:
The sound engineer who had been designing your DP decided that adding the 16-foot voice in the organ sound preset imitates the organ sound best way, that using 16-foot voice evokes feeling of a common organ sound. (Maybe, many of organ players wouldn’t agree with him.)

Long explanation:
How an organ makes the organ sound:
Organ (both, acustic or digital) offers possibility to add usually from 10 to 40 different voices to each one key. It means, when user switch on all of (40) voices (so called registers) and then presses one key (e.g. middle C), 40 voices will sound simultaneously (almost each of them sounds the C note). Usually (I would expect):
10 of voices would be the 8-foot (which sounds the same pitch as piano),
10 of voices would be 4-foot (which sounds one octave above the piano),
up to 3 of voices would be 2-foot (which sounds two octaves above the piano)
1 or 2 of voices would be 1-foot (which sounds three octaves above the piano)
2 to 4 of voices would be 16-foot (which sounds one octave below the piano)
1 could be 32-foot (which sounds two octaves below the piano)
rest of voices would be so called "mixtures" (which are arranged as chords of multiple voices of 2-, 3/5-, 1-, 1/3- foots).
You can see there is plenty of combinations how an organ player can arrange an organ sound for just one key (=C). Of course, the same sound arrangement is set for all keys of keyboard. Organ player wants to arrange such combination which would sound the specific organ piece in accordance with his feeling and experience.

How a digital piano (=DP) makes the organ sound:
A DP has not possibility to allow player to mix 40 voices for each key. Usually, a DP offers 2 (cheap DP) or more (my kawai mp7se has 4) so called "zones". One zone is capable to sound one voice for one key. Two (or more) zones can sound simultaneously (to produce unusual, pleasant attractive sound). Player may choose and assign any of voice from voices sortiment of DP to (each) one zone. As a DP is capable to sound more zones (4 in my DP) user may assign and let sound simultaneously as many voices as the DP offers number of zones (4 voices simultaneously in my DP). 4 zones (simultaneous sounding voices) could be enough for many musical occasions. But 4 zones are absolutely unsatisfactory to arrange 40 organ voices to sound as wedding march. (An organ has a preset named "pleno" or "tutti" which switch on all 40 voices simultaneously.)
When a sound designer (engineer in factory) have to design an organ sound (like the pleno or tutti) into digital piano's particular organ preset, he tries to combine such a mix of individual organ voices which should be attractive and suitable for most musical ocasions demanding organ sound (including a wedding march) into one preset (it means into one zone).
My opinion is, DP's organ presets reflect the designer's feelings and experiences so that sound equipment of some DPs might and others might not be satisfying the player's expectation.

Last edited by lokotraktor; 03/23/21 03:04 AM.
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
R
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
I've never noticed if the organs on the es920 are an octave lower. I do notice however the actual playing range is really narrow compared to a piano. The screechy highs and the subterranean lows of organs manifest quickly, leaving 3-4 octaves of playable range. So perhaps they're just trying to center it to middle c so it corresponds somewhat to the middle point of other sounds.

Last edited by Randyman; 03/23/21 03:12 AM.

Randy
Kawai ES110/ES920, Casio CT-X5000
Flute / Alto recorder / Melodica / iPad music apps
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
R
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
Originally Posted by lokotraktor
Originally Posted by wallyworld17
What is the reason the organ sounds are one octave lower than the piano sounds on the ES520?
I guess, there is no strictly logical reason for -1 octave shift of organ sound.
Shortly:
The sound engineer who had been designing your DP decided that adding the 16-foot voice in the organ sound preset imitates the organ sound best way, that using 16-foot voice evokes feeling of a common organ sound. (Maybe, many of organ players wouldn’t agree with him.)

Long explanation:
How an organ makes the organ sound:
Organ (both, acustic or digital) offers possibility to add usually from 10 to 40 different voices to each one key. It means, when user switch on all of (40) voices (so called registers) and then presses one key (e.g. middle C), 40 voices will sound simultaneously (almost each of them sounds the C note). Usually (I would expect):
10 of voices would be the 8-foot (which sounds the same pitch as piano),
10 of voices would be 4-foot (which sounds one octave above the piano),
up to 3 of voices would be 2-foot (which sounds two octaves above the piano)
1 or 2 of voices would be 1-foot (which sounds three octaves above the piano)
2 to 4 of voices would be 16-foot (which sounds one octave below the piano)
1 could be 32-foot (which sounds two octaves below the piano)
rest of voices would be so called "mixtures" (which are arranged as chords of multiple voices of 2-, 3/5-, 1-, 1/3- foots).
You can see there is plenty of combinations how an organ player can arrange an organ sound for just one key (=C). Of course, the same sound arrangement is set for all keys of keyboard. Organ player wants to arrange such combination which would sound the specific organ piece in accordance with his feeling and experience.

How a digital piano (=DP) makes the organ sound:
A DP has not possibility to allow player to mix 40 voices for each key. Usually, a DP offers 2 (cheap DP) or more (my kawai mp7se has 4) so called "zones". One zone is capable to sound one voice for one key. Two (or more) zones can sound simultaneously (to produce unusual, pleasant attractive sound). Player may choose and assign any of voice from voices sortiment of DP to (each) one zone. As a DP is capable to sound more zones (4 in my DP) user may assign and let sound simultaneously as many voices as the DP offers number of zones (4 voices simultaneously in my DP). 4 zones (simultaneous sounding voices) could be enough for many musical occasions. But 4 zones are absolutely unsatisfactory to arrange 40 organ voices to sound as wedding march. (An organ has a preset named "pleno" or "tutti" which switch on all 40 voices simultaneously.)
When a sound designer (engineer in factory) have to design an organ sound (like the pleno or tutti) into digital piano's particular organ preset, he tries to combine such a mix of individual organ voices which should be attractive and suitable for most musical ocasions demanding organ sound (including a wedding march) into one preset (it means into one zone).
My opinion is, DP's organ presets reflect the designer's feelings and experiences so that sound equipment of some DPs might and others might not be satisfying the player's expectation.

Lokotraktor,
Quite the explanations. Am ready to fall asleep, didn't drill down in all the specifics. How do you come up with 40 voices? I know with an organ you've got 9 drawbars for changing up the sound. In multi-timbral boards you've got upwards of 16 patches/voices/tones that combine. The arranger board, Korg Pa1000, had up to 24 oscillators per voice, very rich sound!


Randy
Kawai ES110/ES920, Casio CT-X5000
Flute / Alto recorder / Melodica / iPad music apps
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 2
W
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
W
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 2
@Lokotraktor, thanks for that; you really pulled out all the stops for that explanation!

While noodling around with the sounds on the ES520, I find this to be curious. The pipe organs (Principal/Church) are at the same octave as the piano but the Electronic ones (Ballad/Jazz/Drawbar) are an octave lower and sound muddy unless you use the transpose button or play up an octave. Since organs have much different capabilities than a piano, what settings or options are these organ sounds meant to reproduce? I assume they are to represent a Hammond or similar instrument with some specific settings--what are those settings?


Steinway K52 Vertigrand 1908
Kawai ES520
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 6
W
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
W
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 6
Looking for some suggestions, please:

In November, I ordered a ES920, sight unseen. Four months later it arrived. The good- the action is a *pleasure* and the sound system is pretty good- for a portable. The bad- the main piano sounds (SK-EX/SK-5), I find pretty lifeless- sort of like the original samples were low-pass filtered. For solo piano the EX is a bit bright and twangy for my taste. This is getting to be a reasonably expensive piano to not like the main piano sounds.

I previously had an FP-30. While a perfectly competent digital piano, it left me wanting more from the action, sound generator and speaker system.
I haven’t broached the topic with the shop yet, but it is a small shop and it isn’t clear that I can outright return it, but may be able to exchange it for something else.

I see two options:

1) Use a VST. There are certainly terrific ones available, however it is a nuisance to have to boot up a computer every time that I want to play. Anyone have an idea if I’d be able to disable the sound generator of the ES920 and use its internal speaker system for the VST?

2) Exchange it for something else. I’m not sure if there is anything else in a similar price range with speakers that has a similar class of action. I’d really like something better that Roland’s PHA-4. I don't think the FP-90X is in my part of Canada yet, and it may be too expensive for me...

Any thoughts / suggestions on what to do here?

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,330
E
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,330
Option 3), play it for a while and see if you get used to it.


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 436
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 436
Option 4: get into the Virtual Technician and tweak the sounds to be more like you want them. Save those settings. And yes, of course you can disable the internal sounds and run a VST through the speakers. Read the manual. (You’re looking for something like “Local Off.”) But if you’re like me, the awkwardness of playing with latency outweighs any benefit you might get from a VST.


Rodney Sauer
Kawai KG-2E • Kawai ES8
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 685
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 685
This is one suggestion I can give without imposing too much: give it some more time. Try many many different settings. And maybe this is the time to up your technique or learn new ones.

1) The Local Control Off option will turn off the tone generator of the instrument. I believe the ES has built-in audio interface, no? If so, just select the audio output as the instrument in your VST/DAW software.

2) It's usually a good idea to think twice before giving up a Kawai key action for something else. If the sound is your main concern, first try the onboard options/settings, then VSTs, and finally give up your ES.

Happy contemplating :-)


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
G. K. Chesterton
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 26
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 26
@waldoh - I echo the suggestions above. I've found that with some tweaking, I can get the internal sounds pretty close to what I like and I have come to like the sounds even more over the two weeks that I've had it. However, my favorite sound is still running pianoteq7 into the ES920.

I midi to a Mac and cable the Mac audio out to the ES920 audio input. There is no delay. It sounds fantastic through headphones. It also sounds better than the internal sounds through the speaker but that's not saying much because the room has such horrible acoustics.

I love the action.

Stick with it and try VSTs but also keep playing with the internal sounds. Spend some time with the manual.

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,646
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,646
New ES920 review, side by side with an ES8:

https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/review-kawai-es920/


My upright piano is for sale!
Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,741
E
EPW Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,741
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
New ES920 review, side by side with an ES8:

https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/review-kawai-es920/

Thanks. More reading material laugh


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,670
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,670
Originally Posted by waldoh
Looking for some suggestions, please:

In November, I ordered a ES920, sight unseen. Four months later it arrived. The good- the action is a *pleasure* and the sound system is pretty good- for a portable. The bad- the main piano sounds (SK-EX/SK-5), I find pretty lifeless- sort of like the original samples were low-pass filtered. For solo piano the EX is a bit bright and twangy for my taste. This is getting to be a reasonably expensive piano to not like the main piano sounds. [...]
I think this is pretty much what happens with most digital pianos with 4-5 velocity layers per note: the audio engineers apply some processing to the original samples to make the transition between layers smoother (i.e.: when you play you should not hear the passage from a layer to the next one) and probably to make more easy the transition from the attack part to the looped part too. Unfortunately this process lowers the quality of the original samples so you cannot hear their original crystal clear quality and richness of details. Sometimes this translates in a feeling of mellowness (SK-EX) or brightness/harshness (EX), but I believe this is true for any digital piano on the market today.

Anyway you can try to make the SK-EX more lively by using a Light touch curve or by setting a Bright voicing or, if you don't like at all the SK-EX, you can try to customize the EX: increase String Resonance and Cabinet Resonance, use Open1(or 2) for Topboard Simulation and increase the depth of the reverb to 7 or 8. If necessary use an Heavy touch curve. This should make the EX more warm, less harsh and more realistic sounding.

Of course, you will never get the quality of the best piano VSTs. I never heard a digital piano sounding (with its internal piano engine) with the same level of detail/richness of a good VST. These instruments are compromises, they are not yet total replacements for an acoustic piano, especially for solo piano playing and recording... It's in the lack of details (in the generated sound) and resonances that you still feel they are digital, and this is true for any DP brand. You cited the Roland FP90X... That's a nice DP but in my opinion it's digital sounding as all the others.

So, IMHO you have 2 options:

1) get used to how your DP sound, customize it to your needs and be happy; come on, it doesn't sound so bad!

or

2) use a VST and be happier with the sound (a little less happy with all the things you have to do to make it all work well without lag issues or missing notes for CPU overloading).


P.S.: a question for you: why you bought a Kawai DP if you don't like its main piano sounds? There are tons of videos where you can hear very well how these DPs sound...

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,330
E
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,330
Originally Posted by waldoh
1) Use a VST. There are certainly terrific ones available, however it is a nuisance to have to boot up a computer every time that I want to play. Anyone have an idea if I’d be able to disable the sound generator of the ES920 and use its internal speaker system for the VST?

About disabling internal sounds, already answered. About using the internal speaker with an external audio source (your computer/iphone/ipad), ES920 has a line in connector that will work (thought there may be noises due to ground loops with the USB device port). Just do not expect a great sound, at least not without some equalization and tweaks. Based on my experience with ES8, it will most likely sound tinny. The speakers are good with the internal generator. Maybe with some tweaks, it may sound good with the external source, but you will need to experiment with it.


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 3
R
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
R
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 3
is there a thread about Yamaha P125? thanks!


Roberto Rodríguez
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
R
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
Originally Posted by roberto54
is there a thread about Yamaha P125? thanks!
I did a quick search and came up with nothing. You have a number of choices:

1. Start a thread yourself like I did with this thread. However, being that there are a number of similar Yamaha boards, you may want to start a thread asking what Owners Club would be the most useful, while or course stating why you want it. With the P45, P121 and others?, would you want to include them as well in the title?

2. Go to a Yamaha sub-forum dedicated to the P125. The only advantage to this forum is most folks are very piano oriented. I haven't seen a lot of discussion of the p125 on this forum, possibly because it's a very good general purpose board, esp with the audio interface built in, but based on the number of times I see it popping up in recommendations for inexpensive starter pianos, I'd venture to say most folks don't regard it as 'pianistic' as other boards in its price range.

3. Start threads that answer specific questions, no Owners Club needed.

Why do you want to start an Owners Club thread for this board?


Randy
Kawai ES110/ES920, Casio CT-X5000
Flute / Alto recorder / Melodica / iPad music apps
Page 10 of 18 1 2 8 9 10 11 12 17 18

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Ten greatest Chopin works
by pianoloverus - 07/24/21 08:34 PM
KORG DS-1H pedal issues with Korg D1
by Mta88 - 07/24/21 04:28 PM
What is this musical symbol?
by pianoloverus - 07/24/21 02:55 PM
I Want To Be Happy
by Simon_b - 07/24/21 02:20 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics208,192
Posts3,116,047
Members102,225
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5