2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
48 members (chung_chang, Carey, brdwyguy, antune, 15 invisible), 890 guests, and 545 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#3096205 03/22/21 02:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 23
X
xDom Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
X
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 23
Hi,
First time poster here.
So, I'm thinking of upgrading my YUS1 upright for a grand, most likely another Yamaha.
I bought the YUS1 new in '12 and have had it tuned every 6 months, its a perfect example of premium model upright!
As a consequence I feel I would rather go for a premium model Yamaha grand ( C , CX ) as opposed to a GC.
I was originally thinking of going new but in my budget I would be limited to the smallest C1X ( 5'3" ? )
I've been looking at the second hand market and I can get a mid 90's C2 178cm for about $5k AUD less than a new C1X.
It's a Japanese import. I've read countless articles and threads on the whole Gray Market situation and feel informed enough on this polarising topic.
Of course I'd get a tech to go over it.
What I'm after is some opinions. Do you believe that the condition of the grand is the most important thing? If this C model is in great condition according to the tech is the fact that its 25 years old irrelevant?
Would you opt for a new 5'3" or a 90's 5'11" for substantially less?

Thanks in advance an I look forward to being a PW member.

xDom #3096212 03/22/21 02:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 93
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 93
Welcome to PW! While I'm also rather new here and no expert, I would just share my opinion.

Even though I'd always prefer new , but just to compare a 5"3 vs 5"11, and especially you already own YUS5 (which is a great upright), I doubt 5"3 grand will satisfy you.

If the 5"11 is well maintained and you can have someone do a great inspection, and if it's a great piano I would go for 5"11 over 5"3. And 20 yrs is old but isn't that old. smile

My own piano is 40 yrs old that I started to consider upgrading to something else.

fibbi #3096219 03/22/21 03:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 23
X
xDom Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
X
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 23
Thanks fibbi,
It's actually a YUS1 I have, an exceptional piano regardless.
I guess you confirmed my thoughts, I believe a second hand bigger instrument is the way to go.
The thing is, I've run this by my trusted piano tuner and almost read every article the internet has, I just like to throw it it there for more opinions!


Thanks

Last edited by xDom; 03/22/21 03:17 AM.
xDom #3096253 03/22/21 06:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 31
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 31
Five points:
- First, it's important that you like the touch and tone of the instrument. Only you can judge that, and two instruments of the same make/model/length can sound and feel different.
- Second, longer pianos typically have longer keysticks for better control and longer bass strings for better bass sound, but these are things you should be able to test and experience while playing (see point 1). If the shorter piano feels and sounds better...
- Third, I upgraded from a 40 year old upright to a 20 year old 6'1" grand and am happy with my decision because of the better control and sound I get from the grand. Consistent with what has been said many times on here, a 25 year old piano may be in great condition or may need substantial work, depending on how much it was used, how well it was maintained, and the environment which it inhabited.
- Fourth, piano prep is important. I remember going to one shop where the new Yamaha CX grands on display sounded muffled. The best sounding piano I played that day was a 30 year old grand on consignment. Presumably, that shop did not do a good job of preparing their new pianos.
- Fifth, The Yamaha C2 was 5'8" (173 cm).

Good luck in your search

xDom #3096254 03/22/21 07:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 23
X
xDom Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
X
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 23
“..- Fifth, The Yamaha C2 was 5'8" (173 cm).


Good point

xDom #3096269 03/22/21 08:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,453
G
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,453
20 years is still young - it is the condition that counts.

I have noticed that the price for larger used grands tends not to be so much more than their smaller cousins so, personally, if I had the space I would spend my time and look around for a really nice 7 foot or thereabouts grand. I don't have that space unfortunately and so have a nice large upright instead.

xDom #3096308 03/22/21 09:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,579
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,579
I 20 y/o bought a Yamaha C2 in 2019, and while I was piano shopping, I played a *lot* of Yamahas of the 5'3" length (of various different specific models). And I can tell you, that extra length makes a HUGE difference. The C2 is a great piano, and the bass is much more satisfying than the 5'3" models.

So based on my experience while piano shopping and my experience of having this C2 for 1.5 years now, I would say without hesitation, choose a used C2 (or used C3 if it fits in your space) over a new C1X.

Obviously, you want to have the used instrument checked out by a piano tech and make sure that it's in good shape, but assuming it is, then there's no reason to be concerned about a 20 year old instrument. Or a 30 y/o instrument. But again, have it inspected first.

Also, if you haven't play Kawai, you might try some of their instruments... I am not remembering the model number, but Kawai makes a 5'11" grand (I think?? check the Piano Buyer brand profiles). Anyway, I played a fair amount of Kawai grands while shopping. As it happens, I personally didn't like the Kawai touch, but that's just a personal preference thing, a lot of people really like Kawai pianos. And some of the ones I played sounded really very nice. If you're looking at used Kawai grands, IIRC the RX line is the one that's analogous to the Yamaha C-series (the new Kawai models are GL and GX). The Kawai that I really liked was that 5'11" RX model, and it was maybe 20 years old as well. It definitely within my budget, so I would imagine you can add Kawai to your search (money-wise).

Anyway, the point is, absolutely include used instruments in your search, you will have soooo many more options.

Good luck!


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
xDom #3096322 03/22/21 10:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,304
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,304
Welcome to Piano World!

I too believe that condition trumps age, as a general rule. However, there are exceptions to every general rule; it depends entirely on the actual piano. smile

When I started looking for a better grand piano than my first grand, which was a little heard of Japanese made Tokai G180 (5'10"), I found myself at a rather large piano dealer in the Atlanta area and played 3 larger grands, a new Kohler & Campbell K700 (6'10"?), a used 7 foot Young Chang, and a much older Yamaha C7 (7'4"; the later models are 7'6", as of the early 1980s).

The new K&C grand looked very nice, sounded and played okay, and the used 7' YC sounded and played better than the K&C, but the old Yamaha C7 thrilled me to the core, despite the age, and the fact that the key-tops were almost as yellow as gold. I asked the dealer to give me a price on all three pianos, which included a trade-in of my Tokai G180 (c. 1987). Actually, all the prices the dealer gave me were about the same, and I was not impressed with the prices of any of them. So, no piano purchase was made that day.

However, I set my sights on a pre-owned Yamaha C7, which was my favorite at the dealer, by far, although it was the oldest.

My takeaway from that experience is that, when it comes to higher quality brands and models, condition does indeed trump age, usually.

I few weeks later I was able to find my current Yamaha C7, (c. 1978) and I absolutely love it, despite the age, and some obvious wear. It sounds and plays great, despite the wear.

So, I've come to the conclusion, based on my own experience, that condition, and performance, is more important than age. Some folks here have said they would never buy a piano more that 10 or 20 years old. That is their right and their privilege, but they could be missing out on some fantastic pianos that are older.

Also, FWIW, if you have the room for a larger grand, there is something about them that sounds better than smaller grands, although some smaller grands sound great. I also have a 5'8" Baldwin R (c. 1999) that I like and play often. But if I had to choose between the two, the C7 would be my choice, by far.

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
xDom #3097746 03/25/21 03:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 23
X
xDom Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
X
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 23
Thanks everyone,
I'm having the tech check out the C2 today.
Fingers crossed it checks out, this instrument played beautifully.

xDom #3097749 03/25/21 03:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,579
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,579
Ooh! Good luck and keep us posted on what the assessment is!


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
xDom #3097775 03/25/21 04:31 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 30,074
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 30,074
A piano''s condition often gets worse with age but OTOH that's certainly not always true. A five year old piano could theoretically be in worse condition than a 50 year old piano. So ultimately the condition is far more important than. age and each comparison case must be evaluated individually. The tech evaluating the piano should tell you it's condition but not by saying something like "It's in very good condition for its age".

xDom #3097786 03/25/21 05:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,459
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,459
To me, the most important thing is whether you really like the sound and action of the piano. The second is the condition of the piano. Third is age. Newer is generally better. Age does take a toll on pianos just as it does with people unfortunately. Best Wishes on your search.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
xDom #3097788 03/25/21 05:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 372
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 372
20-30years old isn’t too old if it only had moderate use and well cared for. C2 is a very nice piano if it checks out. Please report back!

xDom #3097797 03/25/21 05:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,321
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,321
Good luck, I hope it’s perfect for you!! 😍😍😍


Lisa

Playing RCM 7-8 repertoire
Cunningham Studio Grand & Yamaha CLP645

"I tell my piano the things I used to tell you." - Frederic Chopin
xDom #3098273 03/26/21 02:36 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 604
M
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 604
I play on a Yamaha 5'3" piano each week at my lesson. I don't know its age but I know it's well maintained.

I dislike it a lot. The action is nice but the sound is weak, and the pedaling is VERY stiff. My piano is old - a M&H 5'8" - 1963, so it's not a prize, but I definitely can hear the difference in tone and I suppose it's due to the size.

Personally, I would not go for the 5'3" piano. If forced toward that due to space, I'd contemplate a high end digital or hybrid.


MH1963

'63 Mason & Hamlin Model A

[Linked Image]
xDom #3098314 03/26/21 04:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,579
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,579
MH1963, have you ever played a Boston or other piano in that length (5'3" or so) but with the wide tail design? I wonder if you'd react to it the same way. I never had the chance to play a Yamaha 5'3" side by side with the Boston, but when I played the Boston 163, I was really impressed by it and thought it didn't have the limitations of often mentioned about the Yamaha G1 etc.


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
xDom #3098360 03/26/21 06:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 330
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 330
Wow!!! Mid 90s' Yamaha C2 only 5K AUD? Here in NZ, it's 30K NZD at lowest price.

Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 23
X
xDom Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
X
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 23
Nope! What I wrote was that the C2 is $5k cheaper than a new C1X.
C2 is $23k AUD

xDom #3098365 03/26/21 06:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 330
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 330
Ah! got it. Sorry for my underatanding.By the way 😂. C1X is so cheap in AUS!!!! envy you.

Last edited by tony3304; 03/26/21 06:37 PM.
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,459
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,459
Originally Posted by tony3304
Ah! got it. Sorry for my underatanding.By the way 😂. C1X is so cheap in AUS!!!! envy you.

You just got a C3, why would you be envious?


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Juggling Piano!
by Sam S - 06/14/21 07:25 PM
Please help: Kawai ST-1 (institutional) or K-300?
by SantaCecilia - 06/14/21 07:11 PM
Kawai VPC1 velocity curve
by luigigiul76 - 06/14/21 06:17 PM
Quality of the piano dealership shop
by lct14558 - 06/14/21 05:58 PM
Studio piano vsts? eg Ivory, Alicia's Keys
by MarkOfJohnson - 06/14/21 05:30 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics207,515
Posts3,103,681
Members101,810
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5