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Originally Posted by Frank Illenberger
Originally Posted by johnlewisgrant
Question: Why are the IH measurements so quick? Almost instantaneous, in fact. IH measuring seems to be a much more lengthy process in other tuning programs, particularly below c4, as you probably know.

When designing a system for measuring frequencies you need to make many tradeoffs. If you use FFT, you need to choose a sample rate, a buffer size, a windowing function, an interpolation scheme and so on. And they all influence latency and accuracy. As the frequency range of the piano is quite large, there is no single perfect set of parameters. pianoscope is adaptive and very good at reducing latency, as it does not only rely on a streaming buffer which is analyzed ~5 times a second but instead is event based and can react very fast to audible changes.

But the question also is: How much information do you need about a note in general? The inharmonicity of a piano tone changes with its envelope duration. Which inharmonicity do you want to use for tuning? Which one do you use when you tune aurally? Do you use the early, middle or late phase? If you use the early phase, you give more weight to the lower partials in determining the inharmonicity as they are fading out faster than the higher ones. From my experience, if you consistently take just the first 1.5 seconds, you are getting good tuning results. But I think you have to be consistent. Pianometer for example, when the tuning is not yet locked, listens and measures all the time. So it highly depends on you how long you play every note.

Interesting!


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I have just released build 420, which contains some minor fixes.

And I have updated the web page for the pro edition to better explain the unique selling points of pianoscope. Checkout https://www.pianoscope.app/en/features/pro


Frank Illenberger
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A few comments.

When it comes to naming the file, the information most useful to me is the brand, model and serial number. This makes the subcategories, which do not appear when selecting files from the folder, redundant for my purposes. How are others of you using this part of the interface?

If I keep my wits about me, I will remember to take a screen shot of the initial pitch raise screen, showing the deviation of the samples from the target, and save it in my customer management program. Is there a way to call this screen back after I start tuning, if I forget to do it at the beginning? A customer last night asked "how far off was it?", and I didn't know how to show him the graphic.

I am thinking that pitch raising information is stored in the instrument data file and stays there until new pitch raise samples are taken and saved. Am I correct?

When I take my inharmonicity samples followed by a pitch raise, I am offered the possiblity of sampling only a few other notes, but it is not clear to me how to take advantage of that offer. If I hit "begin measuring" I seem to be required to resample everything, and if I do not, I do not seem to be offered any alternative way of moving forward. What am I missing?

I have now done a handful of tunings with this progam, and am finding it enjoyable to use.


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Hi Frank -
I didn't have any tunings scheduled today but decided to tune my own piano as an excuse to try out the updated Pianoscope.
It worked perfeclty! Thank you!


Gerry Johnston, Registered Piano Technician
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Floyd, thank you for your great feedback! Here are my thoughts:

Originally Posted by Floyd G
When it comes to naming the file, the information most useful to me is the brand, model and serial number. This makes the subcategories, which do not appear when selecting files from the folder, redundant for my purposes. How are others of you using this part of the interface?

When I first designed pianoscope I thought of taking the same approach as other apps which use their own database of customers and pianos. But I never really liked the usability of their user interfaces. On the other hand, the document/file abstraction is very powerful and there are many apps and tools out there to seamlessly sync them with other devices and users. And people already know how to organize them so they can start right away.
Sadly, the document system of iOS is currently somewhat limited when dealing with document metadata. I am currently playing with feeding the model / manufacturer / serial data into the spotlight system of iOS. This would enable you to search for this data in the regular iOS search which you get when swiping right on the home screen.
But until then, I can understand your skepticism about the usefulness of these fields.

Originally Posted by Floyd G
If I keep my wits about me, I will remember to take a screen shot of the initial pitch raise screen, showing the deviation of the samples from the target, and save it in my customer management program. Is there a way to call this screen back after I start tuning, if I forget to do it at the beginning? A customer last night asked "how far off was it?", and I didn't know how to show him the graphic.
I am thinking that pitch raising information is stored in the instrument data file and stays there until new pitch raise samples are taken and saved. Am I correct?

Oh well, you got me here. I think you are completely right. Having to take screenshots from an app which should store your data is very unsatisfactory. This is why I have rolled up my sleeves today and restructured the pitch-raise workflow. In build 423, a new sub-menu will be shown, when you select the "Pitch Raise" item in the more menu after you have measured and started a pitch-raise. It now contains options for stopping, resuming and restarting the pitch-raise. You can also open the pitch raise settings and access the chart of the previous measurement. The change is not yet documented in the manual.
Please check it out and let me know if it works for you.

Originally Posted by Floyd G
When I take my inharmonicity samples followed by a pitch raise, I am offered the possiblity of sampling only a few other notes, but it is not clear to me how to take advantage of that offer. If I hit "begin measuring" I seem to be required to resample everything, and if I do not, I do not seem to be offered any alternative way of moving forward. What am I missing?

Normally, you should just select "Use existing measurement" and depending on how many notes you measured for IH, you should be prompted to play the few remaining notes. I have just tested it again, and on my devices, it seems to work as it should. Can you re-try it? And if it still fails for you, make some screenshots of it for me?


Originally Posted by Floyd G
I have now done a handful of tunings with this progam, and am finding it enjoyable to use.

I am really glad you like it. I am hard at work to really get the app finished.

Last edited by Frank Illenberger; 03/18/21 07:10 PM.

Frank Illenberger
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Originally Posted by Gerry Johnston
Hi Frank -
I didn't have any tunings scheduled today but decided to tune my own piano as an excuse to try out the updated Pianoscope.
It worked perfeclty! Thank you!

Great! So it seems that my change has really fixed the bug. Thanks for testing!


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Thanks for your quick response, Frank. I can now recall the graphic I need. In terms of the ability to add only the new measurements needed, I have sent you a screen shot. From what you have said, I understand the problem to be related to how the page is rendered on my first generation iPhone SE.


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Originally Posted by Floyd G
Thanks for your quick response, Frank. I can now recall the graphic I need. In terms of the ability to add only the new measurements needed, I have sent you a screen shot. From what you have said, I understand the problem to be related to how the page is rendered on my first generation iPhone SE.

Thanks for the screenshot. It is a layout problem on small screens. I have already fixed it. The fix will be in the next release. In the meantime you can work around it by rotating your phone to landscape orientation. By the way: pianoscope is optimized to be used in landscape orientation on iPhones. (Of course there should be no layout bugs in portrait mode)


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I like everything. This application can be completely trusted, the setting is ideal. There are minuses. When tuning sometimes hangs. I would like to in the application there was an opportunity to make a stroboscope opaque.

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When writing a name (New Piano), the cursor does not move while the space is pressed.

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Originally Posted by D520
I like everything. This application can be completely trusted, the setting is ideal.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by D520
There are minuses. When tuning sometimes hangs.


Yes, this is a known bug. I am working on reproducing and fixing it. Currently it helps if you simply play a different note.

Originally Posted by D520
I would like to in the application there was an opportunity to make a stroboscope opaque.

Why do you want it to be opaque? To get more contrast or because you don't want the scale to shine through?

Originally Posted by D520
When writing a name (New Piano), the cursor does not move while the space is pressed.

Thanks. The fix for that will be in the next build.


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I just got back from tuning a piano that was 80 cents flat. I wasn't expecting that, and was stumped. Playing samples for inharmonicity and seeing them interpreted as the semitone below was initally off-putting. I ended up doing a first pass with no overpull in Tunelab using an existing tuning file of a similar piano, then switched across to PianoScope and took measurements for inharmonicity and pitch raising.

Next time I encounter a piano this far off pitch, I will simply pull up any existing data file in PianoScope and do a no-overpull pass (i.e. no breaking strings, I hope) before taking measurements for a new tuning file.

With this piano, I could probably have started right off with overpull, but I've had some rude surprises in the past. I am preferring to play it safe. And yes, I am aware that I can lower the overpull limits.


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When the stroboscope is opaque, then it dominates the program desktop. Communication of the program with a person is obtained very high, the application and man becomes like one. When the stroboscope is visible weakly, it goes into the background, tensions and inattention and even fatigue at work appear. For the experiment, I set up the piano at once in two programs, Tunelab and Pianoscope. When working it turned out that it was comfortable to work with Tunelab, just because he has a contrast strobe. If the dark cubes of the strobe will overlap the red arrow, then when they are crossing them, you can make the arrow changed the shade with dark to light.

Last edited by D520; 03/20/21 01:25 AM.
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Dear Frank! You've created a very decent piano tuning app. Allow me to notice something too. I think the user should be able to quickly switch notes and octaves without using the on-screen keyboard. Swipe left and right to switch notes by semitone. And with a single tap on these areas of the display, we switch the octaves up and down.

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Originally Posted by Vlad Ants
Dear Frank! You've created a very decent piano tuning app. Allow me to notice something too. I think the user should be able to quickly switch notes and octaves without using the on-screen keyboard. Swipe left and right to switch notes by semitone. And with a single tap on these areas of the display, we switch the octaves up and down.

Vlad, this is an interesing request. I am going to look into this.

The other day, I was experimenting with using voice recognition to switch notes. The idea is, that you could simply say "up" or "down" to switch to a neighbouring note, or to say something like "C 3" or "A sharp 5" to jump to other notes.

What do you all think of this? Would this be a welcome way to switch notes hands-free?

Last edited by Frank Illenberger; 03/20/21 05:55 AM.

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I don’t know how convenient it would be, but, in any case, this will be the first time it will be used in a customization application. And the ability to switch, which I described earlier in the post, I would be very welcome.

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Hi Frank -
Not sure I'd want to use voice recognition. Customer might think I was talking to them - or else had gone nuts talking to my ipad!


Gerry Johnston, Registered Piano Technician
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Another note switching observation - I've found it really difficult to hit C8 with my finger...

Ron Koval

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Originally Posted by RonTuner
Another note switching observation - I've found it really difficult to hit C8 with my finger...

Do you know that you can change the Keyboard size by pinching with two fingers inside the Keyboard?


Frank Illenberger
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Originally Posted by Frank Illenberger
Originally Posted by RonTuner
Another note switching observation - I've found it really difficult to hit C8 with my finger...

Do you know that you can change the Keyboard size by pinching with two fingers inside the Keyboard?


Thanks, I remembered that was an option, but was pinching too high on the screen!

Ron Koval

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