2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
30 members (dima5222, Evgeny 85, David B, jon123, AlphaTerminus, ando, Beowulf, CaseyVancouver, 6 invisible), 495 guests, and 578 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
#3093578 03/15/21 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 118
W
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 118
This just arrived. 2005 Seiler SE-122 in barely used condition, sounds and looks stunning. The original owner, an adult learner, bought it, and gave up playing a few years later, kept it in her home, had it regularly tuned, and finally asked her teacher to sell it in late 2020. I got it for under $3000, and it arrived in immaculate condition and perfectly tuned. Hammers look barely used, I doubt this saw any intense practice ever. Deal of a lifetime, and even when I upgrade to a grand (my house has the space) I doubt I'll ever give this one up as a practice instrument.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

With special thanks to Julius Feurich at Seiler Germany who verified the instrument's history for me, and Russell I. Kassman who gave me excellent feedback on the instrument's condition based on recordings I sent over.
And, more generally, thanks to PianoWorld for weeks of delightful and sometimes hilarious discussion on the value or not of German uprights and the crazy standards that surround their certification. I note this SE-122 has a Guetezeichen RAI seal on it that says "KG Deutsche Klaviere" which I also saw on a brand new Seiler SE-132 at the Houston Yamaha dealership.


"Ein Buch ist ein Spiegel, aus dem kein Apostel herausgucken kann, wenn ein Affe hineinguckt." Georg Christoph Lichtenberg (1742-1799)
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,089
H
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,089
Congratulations on your new piano! Beautiful!

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
L
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
Under $3000? Why in the world would someone let it go for such a loss? I don't get it. Did the person try to sell it and could find no buyers?

I never find such steals. I pay market for everything. So be it. People always try to make people who pay market feel bad for doing so.

When I go to sell, I expect market and I would feel bad beating someone up so badly on price.

Last edited by LarryK; 03/15/21 07:40 PM.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 118
W
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by LarryK
Under $3000? Why in the world would someone let it go for such a loss? I don't get it. Did the person try to sell it and could find no buyers?

I never find such steals. I pay market for everything. So be it. People always try to make people who pay market feel bad for doing so.

When I go to sell, I expect market and I would feel bad beating someone up so badly on price.

It's even crazier than that. I thought (emphasis: thought) I was under contract for a Bluethner, and texted the piano teacher with the Seiler: please, please post this on Pianomart and Pianoworld for at least an asking price of 10.000 if not more, given that people are charging 12k to 16k for used Schimmel uprights of the same length in MUCH worse shape (and I think to many people, Seiler and Schimmel are comparable). I sent them screenshots from Larry Fine's piano book, 2019 edition I think, plus pianopricepoint, etc. and the seller would not bulge. He said he'd failed to sell it for so many months, he wasn't gonna raise the price now.
Then my Bluthner deal fell through - because the lender misread my credit score by 500 (funniest reading error ever). I was livid. And blessed. I turned around and bought the Seiler at a fraction - unseen, unplayed, because this is Covid and people aren't out there piano-shopping like in 2019.

I'm still in disbelief the seller let it go. When I asked them again today why they let it go, they said that everytime someone came to inquire and look it was "well, it's no Kawai or Yamaha." So even in the US, buyer sophistication and informedness varies greatly.
First time I realized that PW and other places are really a bubble. Most of the folks on here know a lot, or are quickly brought up to speed (if they care to self-educate). But out there on the open secondary market? Not so much. "Oh, it's just a German instrument, not Japanese? Thanks, pass." Hilarious, if you think of the prestige German instruments carry here on PW (and of course, back in Europe).

I recently wrote to a guy on Ebay selling his father in law's Seiler grand if he knew the instrument the'd listed for ca. $9000 sold new for $128,000 - barely used SE-186 or similar. He said "thank you" and kept his listing price at below 10k. Some people just really don't care. All else aside, Samick's acquisition of Seiler seems to have diluted the brand so much that even moderately educated buyers don't fully know what they're getting when buying German Seiler and aren't willing to pay Schimmel prizes. That's just a guess on my part.

I'm sure there's other and better reasons to explain the situation we're in. But I do think that Schimmel has run an amazing marketing campaign in the US to help spread brand awareness where Seiler has done hardly anything. Just my impression, I hope others have better explanations!

Last edited by Windjammer; 03/15/21 08:40 PM.

"Ein Buch ist ein Spiegel, aus dem kein Apostel herausgucken kann, wenn ein Affe hineinguckt." Georg Christoph Lichtenberg (1742-1799)
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 516
L
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 516
Congrats Windjammer!

You got a Helluva deal on a real Gem

Nicely done!


~Lucubrate


Bösendorfer 280VC
Steingraeber 130

“First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.“ ~Epictetus
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 118
W
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by Hakki
Congratulations on your new piano! Beautiful!
Originally Posted by Lucubrate
Congrats Windjammer!

You got a Helluva deal on a real Gem

Nicely done!


~Lucubrate
Thank you both for your kind words!


"Ein Buch ist ein Spiegel, aus dem kein Apostel herausgucken kann, wenn ein Affe hineinguckt." Georg Christoph Lichtenberg (1742-1799)
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
Windjammer
You got your dream piano and got it for an amazing price !
Here in Vancouver you never find used European pianos.
I had to really pay ( big time ) for my Schimmel K132 .
My very first piano was a pre war Seiler given to me by my aunt. I still remember the beautiful tone. It inspired me , and I always knew I would get my own German made piano after my old Kawai grand started getting really old.


I wish you many wonderful hours of piano playing ! 🌹

Last edited by Lady Bird; 03/16/21 11:09 PM. Reason: missing text
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
By the way it looks gorgeous ! One day perhaps you will give us a "sound clip" ?

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 118
W
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Windjammer
You got your dream piano and got it for an amazing price !
Here in Vancouver you never find used European pianos.
I had to really pay ( big time ) for my Schimmel K132 .
My very first piano was a pre war Seiler given to me by my aunt. I still remember the beautiful tone. It inspired me , and I always knew I would get my own German made piano after my old Kawai grand started getting really old.


I wish you many wonderful hours of piano playing ! 🌹
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
By the way it looks gorgeous ! One day perhaps you will give us a "sound clip" ?
Ms. Lady Bird, thank you for your kind words! How very gracious of you, and true to your user name - in Austin, where I lived for a while, we have the beautiful Lady Bird Johnson memorial library and gardens.

I will happily share a recording clip once I'm ready. I tried to record from my iphone but the microphone quality is just very bad. Also, to be honest, it will take a while to adjust to the new instrument. Esp. the lower octaves require more physical effort than the Yamaha bp2 I was practising on daily since December (after a 15 year hiatus). And I have a Boesendorfer technician come to my house in April for a pitch raise. I remember you posting your new piano story only after you had your Schimmel for a month or more, and I think that is a very healthy attitude (better than mine) - to give oneself more time with a newly acquired instrument before sharing with others.

As to Schimmel and other German uprights being rare in Vancouver: it is the same here in Texas, if not worse. There is no Schimmel dealership in Houston, and when I called the one in Dallas they straight up told me they don't have uprights on the floor since people interested in Schimmel will buy a Schimmel grand. I was lucky to encounter Seiler in Houston, however, because I honestly did not grow up with them in Austria.

I was really fortunate to locate this instrument on the secondary market, and I hope that many other aspiring players in your area and mine can be fortunate too in the future. Thanks again for your gracious posts.


"Ein Buch ist ein Spiegel, aus dem kein Apostel herausgucken kann, wenn ein Affe hineinguckt." Georg Christoph Lichtenberg (1742-1799)
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 83
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 83
Wow!! Beautiful piano and a great price. What a find. All the best. Enjoy it every day.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,866
D
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,866
How wonderful!! Congratulations!! I am sure you will get years of pleasure from it.

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 55
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 55
Amazing piano! I'm sure you'll love your Seiler for a long time. I own a Seiler grand as well.

Windjammer, Houston Piano Company is a piano dealer for Schimmel. But they are not very responsive to me and have limited inventory. I've been asking for ages if they will ever get a Konzert series line in but never get a straight answer. One time they even lied just to get me in the store.

Last edited by dusty1920; 03/22/21 03:16 PM.
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 43
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 43
Congratulations Windjammer!
Such a lovely upright for an almost "give away price" Best wishes, wishing you much happiness with this piano.


Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
KORG SP170S PANEL REMOVAL?
by Prof. Piano - 05/11/21 11:59 PM
KORG SP170S PANEL REMOVAL?
by Prof. Piano - 05/11/21 11:50 PM
WTC C-maj fugue (bk 1) analysis question
by hawgdriver - 05/11/21 10:55 PM
DP model numbers and years sold?
by ObtuseMoose - 05/11/21 10:45 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,876
Posts3,092,482
Members101,481
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5