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Is Yamaha marketing the old pianos as "Classic Yamaha"? You know, like "Classic Coke". Maybe people like classic stuff more than new stuff/
A related observation: Don't you read the newbie posts here asking about old-model pianos they want to buy? Not just CP300. And not just Yamaha.
I think this stems from not knowing the market.

I think it is. The action of the 785, 745, etc. is lighter and more realistic (escapement?) than the action of my 15 year old Clavinova (CLP 270). The feeling of latter one is best decribed by a spring that pushes back with a constant force.
And in fairness of the piano, it has done a consequent job for 15 years, not failing once

But like it has been pointed out here before, best try for yourself.

You say ‘a spring that pushes back with constant force’ when referring to the CLP-270.

CG says something like ‘an odd resistance pushing back on the fingers’ when referring to the CLP-785.

Needless to say, you love the 785 whilst CG hates it.

I ask, what the heck is going on here?

Mac, can we collectively sue Yamaha for this practice?


If we win, this could send a clear message to the other manufacturers:

Discontinue or upgrade, Biatch!

I haven't tested 785, only 775 which I hated. Maybe the counterweights on the 785 help.

Hey iSoft,
I bought a CA79 in December this year but my unit had massive quality issues (clicking and sticking keys, the infamous speaker buzzing, non-functional touch display).
So I was really disappointed and got my refund from my dealer after 2 weeks of ownership.
Now where stores have opened in Germany again I went to another dealer to test all the models and compare them including the CA59 and CA79.
The CA79 in the store had the exact same issue with the buzzing speaker/dissortion sound and the CA59 they put straight out the box for me to test had some clicking and even a sticky key. Which made me even more disappointed in Kawais current quality checks.

However even all these „issues“ aside with the CA79 and the CA59, I just found the speakers in the CLP745 to be way more powerful, more natural, very Open and clear sounding whereas the Kawais speakers sounded more dimmed and boxy to me. However that’s only my personal impression. Always to be taken with a grain of salt. Honestly I didn’t expect the CLP745 to convince me that much since I have been a Kawai „fanboy“ for the most time and looking up the stats the CA79 6way speaker should sound superior to the CLP745 4 way speaker but to me it simply didn’t.

My bad (apologies); you did say 775 and not 785, but I wonder how much of a difference the counterweights make.

If the counterweights make such a big difference between the 785/775 then it is wrong for Yamaha to do this because the 775 is not a cheap instrument and to cripple it just to create a differentiation from the 785 is wrong.

For example, the N1X is much cheaper than the N3X but Yamaha didn’t change anything between the actions to differentiate the two instruments. The differences are marked by speakers, cabinetry, ivorite, TRS, etc.....

It should be no different between the 785\775. The speakers, cabinetry, etc, should more than differentiate the two.

The notion that a spring pushes back with a constant force is ... odd.
The old Clavs do have a leaf spring under each key ... but the spring force varies with the key's position. It's not constant. Hooke's law, and all that.
In any case it's not the springs that bothers me. It's the heaviness.

I haven't yet set fingers on a 700-series Clav. Are they still heavyweights, or not?

I noticed a difference, the action is more light in 785 and there is specific movement like a seesaw (I liked this). 785 is the only one in 700 series that I see this. This seesaw is more evident in ca99.

I briefly tried ca99, around an hour and found it really light. I would like to know from ca99 owners what they think about this. To me the 785 is the better option before go to hybrids.

Juca, have you tried the NU1X? If so, how does it compare to the 785?

I assume when you said ‘the 785 is the better option before hybrids’ you meant as compared to the N1X/N3X.

1 Unfortunately I did not find anywhere in Brazil the Yamaha avant grand series.

2 When I said hybrids I meant nv10 nv5, two beautiful hybrid pianos. Avant grand I haven't tried it but I am convinced that the key action is great since internally there is practically the mechanics of the acoustic piano.

I have a yamaha b1 and although clp 785 is not the same thing (785 tries to imitate something between grand and upright) the 785 goes very well. The ca99 is much lighter compared to this b1.

I don't have money to buy a hybrid, here in Brazil the nv10 is very very expensive.

The problem in ca99 to me is dynamic weight (but I don't know exactly what is that, maybe the weight when I'm playing, like feeling the key light).

You know, I loved the RM3/II and at some point saw myself never buying anything else other than a Kawai.....until the GF action came out.

Initially I was giddy with excitement because of the improvements claimed by Kawai; starting with the longer pivot, etc... but then I played the action and realized that it was too light-fluffy-bouncy for me. I then tried to convince myself that it must’ve been something to do with the settings or just a matter of getting used to it...fast forward many years and I never got used to it (GF).

I never tried the newer iterations, but I think it’s fair to assume they are also light.
It seems to me that this was done deliberately by Kawai (make the action lighter), and it’s not necessarily a bad thing because some do prefer a light(er) action; it’s just not the action for me.


I constantly ask about how the 685\785 compare to the NU1X because I’m genuinely curious since the price is very similar and the specs are very different.
The NU1X does have a real action, but then it’s an upright action (whatever that means); it only has four puny speakers, yet many prefer its sound over the 685 (not enough info on how the 785 compares in this regard). The NU1X also uses optical sensors; whereas, the 685\785 uses rubber sensors.

I’ve been paying more attention to the optical sensor mechanism vs. the rubber thingy mechanism. Perhaps optical is ‘much’ better because it is contactless and not affected by dust in the way rubber sensors are?

The thing about the NU1X is it seems like a match-made in heaven with VST. When I had my NU1X, it was the best experience I ever had with Garritan and VSL. I can't seem to find the same level of connection with my N1X now.

Maybe optical would fix the problem with sensors going bad. I've had Clavinovas for 30 years and the sensors only last about 10 before they need replaced.

I've arranged to get my clp785 collected and my ca99 sent back to me, I've only played about an hour since last Thursday on the 785 and to me it's unplayable, i can't express myself musically the way i want on such another action which feels like it's working against me the whole time... I detest its action. I also find the output of the speakers weak and underpowered compared to my ca99, which is amazing as it's 300w...and the kawai is 125w or something, the kawai is more powerful all round and at lower volumes.

@mwf Nothing wrong with you liking the CA99 more. I think they are both nice pianos. I have some arthritis now and so I will be looking for a lighter action when I purchase my next digital piano.

They really do. Once I found a shop were I could play both the 775 and 785, the difference was obvious.


You are absolutely right. I actually came to the shop with the intention to buy the 775, unless there was a convincing difference in playability (decided the extra voices aren't worth a 1000 euros, and neither is the 16 WATT difference in speaker power ). However, you mentioned before that you like the NWX action. I don't know how that compares to the 775 (my 270 has GH3).
BTW: there was a NU1X there as well. I liked how that piano played too, but given CG's story about the loud note issue and the fact the the 785 action was good enough for me, I decided to skip it for now.

Hi Gaia,

That's indeed suprising ! I really thought too that the CA-79 speaker system would be way more immersive and precise than the 745.
Thanks for this detailed answer

Optical sensors would appear to be better than the rubber/graphite thingies you mention, however the grating is subject to haze/film/bloom that occurs overtime on internal surfaces such as glass windows, and the LED outputs can deteriorate. Having said that mine are 8 years without trouble so far, although I did clean the gratings with isopropyl alcohol at some point.

Hi all!

I have been following this thread for a while and decided to register and join in the conversation.

I have just placed an order for a CLP-785 at my local music shop and they gave me an estimate of 2-3 weeks for the delivery.

My Yamaha P-150 has served me since 2012 so this will be a major upgrade for me.