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I think the resolution is actually stronger than a V I . A half diminished to a major, a whole step below. Example: D half diminished to C major

Why is this resolution so Strong?

The nearest I can get is its related to the parallel minor?

Z

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Hi

I'd describe it as a V chord substitution, as in effect it's a 2nd inversion of G7b9add11.

But there are many other people here, who can probably give you a better explanation (if there is one).

Cheers


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Originally Posted by ZeroZero
The nearest I can get is its related to the parallel minor?

Z

Agree - In the key of C the 'Lowered 7 dominant' - Bb7 - goes C major

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The reason a V7 chords resolves so well to the I is the tritone in the V7 chord. This in G7, the tritone b and f, which cry out to move to c and e; thus the nice resolution. As noted in earlier responses, the diminished chord you're using (D dim) has that tritone in it.

Another example is a similar substitution of a diminished chord for a 7th chord is the I VI ii chord sequence. Thus in C it would be Cmaj 7, A7 to D-. Now, substitute C# diminished for the A7. It not only leads wonderfully to the D-, but makes for a great bass line.

That use of the diminished chord instead of the dominant was very popular in older jazz like Basie charts.

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Originally Posted by jjo
the diminished chord you're using (D dim) has that tritone in it.

Now, substitute C# diminished for the A7. It not only leads wonderfully to the D-, but makes for a great bass line.

the d dim doesn’t have a b in it at all and the OP was about the dim chord resolving down a whole step

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Originally Posted by ZeroZero
I think the resolution is actually stronger than a V I . A half diminished to a major, a whole step below. Example: D half diminished to C major

Why is this resolution so Strong?

The nearest I can get is its related to the parallel minor?

Z

I'll throw in another take. In case no one else stated it this way. A D half diminished to C major assuming they are both in root position (things like this really really need to be notated so that every one is on the same notation page).........the D half diminishted has an Ab leading a half step down to G AND an F leading a half step down to E. Also, of course the D moving down a step.

As stated above a V I would only have ONE half step leading tone - a B leading to a C. I'd say 2 half step leading tones vs one half step leading tone sounds more strongly resolved.

Last edited by indigo_dave; 03/10/21 04:07 PM.
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Yes both in root positions.

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Its such a beautiful chord in gthis context, it has a kind of disney princess grace to it.

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Originally Posted by indigo_dave
Originally Posted by ZeroZero
I think the resolution is actually stronger than a V I . A half diminished to a major, a whole step below. Example: D half diminished to C major

Why is this resolution so Strong?

The nearest I can get is its related to the parallel minor?

Z

I'll throw in another take. In case no one else stated it this way. A D half diminished to C major assuming they are both in root position (things like this really really need to be notated so that every one is on the same notation page).........the D half diminishted has an Ab leading a half step down to G AND an F leading a half step down to E. Also, of course the D moving down a step.

As stated above a V I would only have ONE half step leading tone - a B leading to a C. I'd say 2 half step leading tones vs one half step leading tone sounds more strongly resolved.

That makes sense. I looked at it as the extension of the lowered 7th. I know it's used a-lot; when you described it, it made it seem so plain and logical.

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emelton: You are correct. I misread the OP as talking about D dim, not D half diminished, which, as a jazz player, I just treated as a D diminished 7th chord. The use of a diminished 7th chord as a sub for a 7b9 chord, as I'm sure you know, is so common I just missed what was actually being asked!

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Originally Posted by jjo
emelton: You are correct. I misread the OP as talking about D dim, not D half diminished, which, as a jazz player, I just treated as a D diminished 7th chord. The use of a diminished 7th chord as a sub for a 7b9 chord, as I'm sure you know, is so common I just missed what was actually being asked!

thanks

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I have to agree with Simon_b. In this case the D half dim is really a rootless voicing (with tensions) of the G or V chord.
In your LH, play a lower G note, in your RH, the D half dim. The D is the fifth, the F is the flat seventh, the A flat is the flat ninth and the C is the (suspended) eleventh. You have the option of dropping the sus 11 to B, which is the third of G and then raising it again as you resolve the whole business to your C chord.


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I spent some time with this chord. The beauty of this chord is it's ambiguity.

It's usually heard as a locrian - which is also the Mixolydian +9th in first inversion.

It's also the ii chord of the parallel harmonic minor

Thirdly, as some have said here, it can be an altered V chord in its own right.

You can also use it as the ii to a V chord.

It really opens up a huge world of non traditional opportunities and gives an edge to your changes. I just love it.

Z

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In olden times before the half-diminshed chord existed (ie 1930s) they used to think of Dm7b5 as an inversion of Fm6 but with the D in the bass. Both chords share the same notes (D F Ab C) so you can think of the chord in whichever way fits best. If you conceptualise the chord as Fm6 then related to C major it is a subdominant minor, which is pretty common in a major key. Lots of tunes have that movement.

Originally Posted by ZeroZero
It's usually heard as a locrian - which is also the Mixolydian +9th in first inversion.

You have lost me there

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Originally Posted by beeboss
In olden times before the half-diminshed chord existed (ie 1930s) they used to think of Dm7b5 as an inversion of Fm6 but with the D in the bass. Both chords share the same notes (D F Ab C) so you can think of the chord in whichever way fits best. If you conceptualise the chord as Fm6 then related to C major it is a subdominant minor, which is pretty common in a major key. Lots of tunes have that movement.

Originally Posted by ZeroZero
It's usually heard as a locrian - which is also the Mixolydian +9th in first inversion.

You have lost me there

Modally the half diminished is the seventh mode. Example in C, its b half dim. If you take G7 (myxolydian) and take away the root and add a 9th, viola - the half diminished,

Your Fm6 resolving to C maj, so you can have the sequence D half dim, Fm6, CM =- that's an interesting progression too.

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Originally Posted by ZeroZero
Modally the half diminished is the seventh mode. Example in C, its b half dim. If you take G7 (myxolydian) and take away the root and add a 9th, viola - the half diminished,

Oh I see what you mean, although in this case you could be better off thinking that the Dm7b5 is chord 2 in Cmin and then using D locrian natural 9th scale ;-)
So many possibilities!


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