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...To clarify. the piece I was thinking of was Scherzo #3 Op 39.
Low octaves as follows: (a) br 104, D natural....
Thanks for that, but.....again I know this is a side issue (if an issue at all) but, I don't have handy a score with measure numbers and from looking through the score in what I think is that general area, I only see D-sharp and D-flat octaves -- no D octave.
Not important, of course -- it's just that when you said "octave D's in the bass," it jumped out at me because it didn't feel like there are any such in the scherzi. (Not that Chopin scherzi 'couldn't' have them, of course, just that they seemed not to.)
Mark, no wonder it jumped out at you because you are right and I was wrong. BTW, don't let any of my friends see this. They think that I'm always right.
At br 104, it's a D sharp and not a D natural. Put it down to a senior's moment.
Love the video BTW. I must have a different edition, as it doesn't sound like that when I play it!
Thanks for being so patient and kind in your comments. I owe you one.
PS There is a pretty good low D natural octave in the Op 54 Scherzo, bar 800, complete with natural sign. Just saying.
I should have titled the thread more like "Why Baroque sounds calmer compared to Romantic" e.g so that it becomes more of an objective discussion. However, I can't edit it anymore.
The history of music is a history of composers taking liberties that their predecessors would not in their wildest dreams have dared taking, partly because they could not imagine it, partly because they were afraid what others (their patrons) might say. Imagine the commotion Richard Strauss' opera "Salome" would have caused in Bach's day. The audiences might have vomited with fear and loathing (I actually know people who would do that today with that opera, but they are clearly barbarians, so whatever)
To my ears, music from the Baroque sounds terribly restrained - like music put into a straitjacket. It almost certainly did not sound that way to the listeners of that era. But with people like Mozart and Beethoven it seems very clear, that they did not want to restrain their music like Bach did, and so they expanded the "language" of music, as did all composers after (and before) them. I prefer the Romantic to the Classical style, and the Baroque is my least favourite. But, as far as I am concerned, there are wonderful masterpieces from every era.
Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28 Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 Focus: 1850±100 years
^ That is very odd. To me the music of Bach sounds like so much more unrestrained compared to say Mozart and Beethoven. Don't get me wrong, I love Mozart and Beethoven I just think that while Bach's music is very formalized and apaprently follows some predefined form which may seem like a "limitation", he also used chromatic development and almost avant-garde harmonic elements here and there that are IMO representative of how free Bach was in his musical thought. That applies to other Baroque composers more or less. Whereas Mozart and Beethoven were creating works in an era that was self-described as unrestrained but was actually limited by its own trends and cliches. All that is just my opinion
^ That is very odd. To me the music of Bach sounds like so much more unrestrained compared to say Mozart and Beethoven.
I suppose the ear of the beholder is important in defining "restrained". To me (and probably to the classicists), the strict form Bach tended to stick to seems … er … restrictive. As an example, Bach wrote his well-tempered klavier for each tonality individually, whereas Mozart and Beethoven proceeded to write preludes in all major tonalities, going from one to the next every two bars, or so. My guess is that Bach would have frowned upon such frivolity.
Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28 Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 Focus: 1850±100 years
Many people think Bach is just as "romantic" as the Romantic composers. I think the emotions Bach can evoke are as strong as composers from the later musical periods. Bach's music for keyboard(not including organ) is more restricted/restrained in terms of dynamics.
Many people think Bach is just as "romantic" as the Romantic composers. I think the emotions Bach can evoke are as strong as composers from the later musical periods. Bach's music for keyboard(not including organ) is more restricted/restrained in terms of dynamics.
Largely due to the restraints of the keyboard instruments he was writing for.
Of course we can't ask Bach about it now (well we could, but the answer might be inaudible), but I believe he would have found much of Mozarts (and especially Beethovens) compositions insufferable emotional pornography.
Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28 Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 Focus: 1850±100 years
I was taught to have an open mind learning any piece. I would hate to choose a piece on period alone if forced to. Obviously there's good and bad ones in any period. A matter of ones particular taste anyway.
To my ears, music from the Baroque sounds terribly restrained - like music put into a straitjacket. It almost certainly did not sound that way to the listeners of that era. But with people like Mozart and Beethoven it seems very clear, that they did not want to restrain their music like Bach did, and so they expanded the "language" of music, as did all composers after (and before) them. I prefer the Romantic to the Classical style, and the Baroque is my least favourite. But, as far as I am concerned, there are wonderful masterpieces from every era.
Nothing restrained here:
Not knowing who composed this, most people would probably point to a modern composition, given the level of chromaticism. I think all in all that classical period music is, in fact, more structured and more consistent in style than the variety of baroque styles.
Many people think Bach is just as "romantic" as the Romantic composers. I think the emotions Bach can evoke are as strong as composers from the later musical periods. Bach's music for keyboard(not including organ) is more restricted/restrained in terms of dynamics.
Largely due to the restraints of the keyboard instruments he was writing for.
Then again, playing Bach on a modern instrument (such as the 9 foot Steinway in this video) can provide interpretative opportunities that border on the "romantic."
I deeply love opera and I don't think it can be neglected in this discussion. I love Baroque, and Classical, and Romantic opera. Impossible for me to say that I prefer one category to another. They can all in their different ways be deeply emotional and expressive. Handel, or Mozart, or Berlioz, or Wagner can all be deeply moving.
^ That is very odd. To me the music of Bach sounds like so much more unrestrained compared to say Mozart and Beethoven.
I suppose the ear of the beholder is important in defining "restrained". To me (and probably to the classicists), the strict form Bach tended to stick to seems … er … restrictive. As an example, Bach wrote his well-tempered klavier for each tonality individually, whereas Mozart and Beethoven proceeded to write preludes in all major tonalities, going from one to the next every two bars, or so. My guess is that Bach would have frowned upon such frivolity.
"Go to him to learn how to achieve great effects, by such simple means." --Beethoven speaking of Handel.
Bach is just 1 composer in the baroque era.
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“The one Bach piece I learnt made me feel I was being repeatedly hit on the head with a teaspoon” - Dodie Smith, I Capture the Castle
When I read this, I immediately thought ‘YES’. I hadn’t had any experience with playing his keyboard pieces but was exposed to his Brandenburg stuff, sang his B minor mass with my choral society and played one piece adapted for saxophone for ABRSM grade 7, all of it seemed dull. Pieces, such as the Goldberg variations, I find clever but leave me cold. Since starting up on the piano I find I enjoy playing it but still have no interest in listening to it.
GFH is different, why, a) he’s got choons b) I have a sentimental attachment to it as this what my parents put on when I was a child (and presumably still do).
This doesn’t answer the OP question and is very subjective but just wished to share.