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Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
... I don't think brand new users should be able to create threads. Have them post comments, maybe 5 to 10, and then allow them to create new threads.

That is a good idea.


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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
... I don't think brand new users should be able to create threads. Have them post comments, maybe 5 to 10, and then allow them to create new threads.

That is a good idea.


I beg to differ (FWIW I understand your point of view, but still...). If that rule existed when I first posted on PW, probably I would have never returned. I prefer these one time posters rather than nonsense posts by some user forums that just clutter the threads without adding anything really useful.

Last edited by EVC2017; 03/03/21 12:55 PM.

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Originally Posted by EVC2017
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
... I don't think brand new users should be able to create threads. Have them post comments, maybe 5 to 10, and then allow them to create new threads.

That is a good idea.


I beg to differ (FWIW I understand your point of view, but still...). If that rule existed when I first posted on PW, probably I would have never returned. I prefer these one time poster over some nonsense posted by some user forums that just clutter the threads without adding anything really useful.

Sometimes a ‘first poster’ is only brave enough to post his immediate/personal concern I.e., I’m buying my first acoustic—-then they become comfortable with the forums and will start participating in threads.


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Originally Posted by Sebs
Originally Posted by FloRi89
Don't want to spoil the fun, but OP made this single rant post and then left again laugh. I'm following the discussion with great interest, OP is not though...

Agree. Maybe it'll help someone else in the same position who comes searching the thread and finds it useful laugh

Truth is that many if not most people do not bother searching threads and as a whole do not research on their own. Take the Digital Piano forum as an example with tons of new threads seeking similar advice all the time regarding buying a new piano.
I don't want to sound lofty but while I was deciding on which piano to buy, I never asked anyone on the internet to "spoonfood" me, I took my time and researched here and there.

I think there should be a mandatory "How to use the forum" etiquette.


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It hasn't been that many days since the original post.....

I don't think there is anything you can do to prevent 'one-and-done' posters without penalizing all the other new posters who use good forum etiquette.


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Originally Posted by Stubbie
I don't think there is anything you can do to prevent 'one-and-done' posters without penalizing all the other new posters who use good forum etiquette.


This, a lot of new members start with one post, and stick around. I'd prefer we not lose those folks!


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One thing to remember is...this forum's notification system is not very good IMHO. Coming from other forums, I thought I'd be automatically notified of posts that were relevant to me, such as in threads I posted in or if I was mentioned with "@". After a while, I realized that I needed to opt-in to receive notifications about threads I took part in, but even then, it hasn't been consistent for me. It's very possible that posters are not being notified that there have been replies posted. Without notifications, I sometimes forget which threads I posted in and, therefore, never reply, not because of poor forum etiquette but because I really had no idea!

Also, some people have busy lives during the workweek. Might be a good idea to give the OP a couple more days.


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Agreed. Also it may be that the original poster is reading all the responses and taking the next steps or making a plan that works best for them. They may just not have had time to post a response. I know that happens to me often. I do try to catch up to posts as soon as I can and acknowledge that I appreciate the responses and time folks have taken out of their day.

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Originally Posted by dogperson
Sometimes a ‘first poster’ is only brave enough to post his immediate/personal concern I.e., I’m buying my first acoustic—-then they become comfortable with the forums and will start participating in threads.

That is a good point.

However, I think it still might be a good idea to require them to post a few responses prior to that first new thread they create.


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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by dogperson
Sometimes a ‘first poster’ is only brave enough to post his immediate/personal concern I.e., I’m buying my first acoustic—-then they become comfortable with the forums and will start participating in threads.

That is a good point.

However, I think it still might be a good idea to require them to post a few responses prior to that first new thread they create.
That would in turn require them to have some knowledge in the first place - which most beginners on piano don't.

This is a very specialist forum, not like cooking (everyone can boil an egg......can't everyone? smirk ) or pets or hairstyles. Most beginners don't even know how many keys a piano has (and I'm not talking Bösendorfer Imperial or S & S - and I'm not talking Steinway & Sons).

Many people join a forum just to ask one question, then they go away and are never seen or heard of again. I've done the same on other forums: my first post to ask a question, my second - and last - post to thank everyone (without saying adieu.....). People then forget me, which is just as it should be (one doesn't want to leave permanent imprints in others' brains on the weakness of two posts, does one?)


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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by dogperson
Sometimes a ‘first poster’ is only brave enough to post his immediate/personal concern I.e., I’m buying my first acoustic—-then they become comfortable with the forums and will start participating in threads.

That is a good point.

However, I think it still might be a good idea to require them to post a few responses prior to that first new thread they create.

I would implement it Don, but many here would disagree with me smile


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Then you have lurkers like me. I read all the threads that interest me regularly in the ABF, and in the digital pianos forums to keep up with issues and new DPs. But very rarely post as it doesn't seem I have anything to add to all of you experts.

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Take a break, if you love it you will come back. Give it some time to let a firm decision settle.

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Originally Posted by David@SpokanePiano
Take a break, if you love it you will come back. Give it some time to let a firm decision settle.

I find it hard to believe anyone can love the piano if they don’t like the way it sounds, or take joy in touching the keys themselves. I guess because I love the way it feels and sounds when I play— and I’m just an average pianist


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I played violin years ago. Tuning is a problem with beginners and even intermediate players. A piano you blame the tuning on the technician. Someone who plays a DP, tuning is never an issue. No matter how badly you hit the keys, they still sound nice.

Some people feel they take lessons for a few years and get nowhere. Not sure if the Suzuki violin approach is the way to go. At the end of the year, every Suzuki student is expected to prepare for a recital. Having a chance to perform would give students something to look forward to than just taking lessons like an academic exercise. It's common for 2 or more students to play together with different instruments or 2 playing the same piano 4 hands complementing each other.

A few people I know including myself play music for stress relief. We don't get stuck playing pieces assigned by a teacher. When I hear an interesting piece on the radio I'd be online looking for a piano arrangement. Regardless which instrument you get into, you need to get to the point of learning and playing music you like.

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I enjoy the journey, I'm really not going anywhere with piano, it is a hobby. I have a teacher who plays drums and euphonium in addition to piano. We work on duets, I play Kenny Rodgers, he accompanies me on the drums. I learned to play more in time having to play with someone. Counting is a weakness of mine. I have been taking for 7 years, it is just about enjoyment. My teacher has a masters in music. Recently passed level 8 RCM theory exam. I have also taken jazz theory from him, so I am learning to become diversified. I'm 60, have a professional career, it is about stress relief, feelings of accomplishment, and having fun.


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Originally Posted by bennevis
This is a very specialist forum, not like cooking (everyone can boil an egg......can't everyone? smirk )
What?
I never boiled an egg, nor do I ever intend to do such a ridiculous thing.

I can make a modest Sushi though.

Getting to the actual topic:
yes I know these questions. I know this nagging "what is the point, why am I doing this to myself?".
Piano can be a lot of fun but most of the time, learning any serious skill is just frustrating as [insert colorful expression].
You are not only fighting your mind and body but most importantly, you fight your own, often exaggerated expectations and the pressure you put onto yourself. It is not easy to dump years into a project and have pretty much nothing to show for it.

I admire people that can always see the silver lining, always seem to be able to extract the tiniest improvement and focus on that. I am not that kind of person. Every mistake I make is like a punch in the face to me. I hate it, it frustrates me to no end to be so utterly incompetent after 2.5 years of near daily practice. Some say that is to be expected, that doesn't make the process fun though.

In piano there seem to be only extremes. Either pieces are a snoozefest or a brickwall re-enforced with steel concrete.

I admire people that got through this phase and got to the good stuff. I am as stubborn as they come, once I have committed myself to a course but I am beginning to have doubts if I will ever make it.

/end personal rant (sometimes it feels good to say these things)


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Originally Posted by Granyala
Originally Posted by bennevis
This is a very specialist forum, not like cooking (everyone can boil an egg......can't everyone? smirk )
What?
I never boiled an egg, nor do I ever intend to do such a ridiculous thing.

I can make a modest Sushi though.
I had to learn to boil an egg because when I went to university, I was suddenly on my own with no cooking skills. Raw eggs didn't appeal (and anyway, they were infested with salmonella), so I learnt how to put the stove on and water in the the saucepan to boil them.

No doubt I could teach myself to make sushi if that was required for survival, but raw fish (where I was) could not be safely eaten raw because of parasites.


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I admire people that can always see the silver lining, always seem to be able to extract the tiniest improvement and focus on that. I am not that kind of person.
Actually, it's not about seeing the silver lining, nor extracting the tiniest improvement.

It's simply making good music by one's own fair hands (and making it even better than the composer ever envisaged whistle).......which one can do within three months of starting lessons. (Three weeks if you're a prodigy.)

Why would anyone persist in learning anything that wasn't required for one's livelihood or health, if one wasn't enjoying the accomplishment as well as the learning process?


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Originally Posted by bennevis
It's simply making good music by one's own fair hands (and making it even better than the composer ever envisaged whistle).......which one can do within three months of starting lessons. (Three weeks if you're a prodigy.)

Why would anyone persist in learning anything that wasn't required for one's livelihood or health, if one wasn't enjoying the accomplishment as well as the learning process?
Eeeh, what?
How is that supposed to be possible? maybe you can do that on "All my ducks" or sth but certainly not with any piece containing notable complexity.

That's the whole point: most early learning, being a crappy beginner isn't fun. It's a lame phase you simply push through in the most efficient manner possible to get to the "good stuff". The main point of why learning piano isn't much fun is, even after the brain knows what to do, you hands don't. So you keep repeating the same crap over and over and over in the hopes that your hands one day will cope. Sometimes they will, sometimes that brickwall won't budge and you eventually shelve the piece for later and cut your losses.

later on, when you stop fighting with the fundamentals (a.k.a.: hitting the right keys in the first place) and are in the area of being able to fine-tune, that's when there is fun to be had, because you can actually play something, even if it isn't perfectly articulated.


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Originally Posted by Granyala
Originally Posted by bennevis
It's simply making good music by one's own fair hands (and making it even better than the composer ever envisaged whistle).......which one can do within three months of starting lessons. (Three weeks if you're a prodigy.)

Why would anyone persist in learning anything that wasn't required for one's livelihood or health, if one wasn't enjoying the accomplishment as well as the learning process?
Eeeh, what?
How is that supposed to be possible? maybe you can do that on "All my ducks" or sth but certainly not with any piece containing notable complexity.
How about a nice piece of Mozart - at three months into lessons?



That was my first Mozart, and I never looked back after that. It was always onwards and upwards from then on..... whistle


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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