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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Then you have not been playing some cheaper models of popular grands around recently or some of the excellent upright pianos .It is SO easy to see, feel or hear this. (of course I am not going to mention those grands by name or model)

Just because a piano a grand does not mean it's better than all uprights.Surely that's common sense ?


Why not a comparison of high end uprights to grands in the same price range? It would even the playing field in any comparison


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Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
Yes, Fazioli prices are now more in line Steinway. From people I have talked to that either own or sell both, all agree that Fazioli is a piano and Steinway is just furniture. 😆

Let's just say that all pianos are noisy black boxes and not pick on any particular brand. One of my friends, a teacher in a music school, holds this opinion, after having dealt with so many students who are piano bangers. He does not teach piano, lol.
Ha! Just like at my day job we aren’t troubleshooting the technology; rather we are troubleshooting the technicians!

Oh, the player is far more likely to be the problem than the piano, especially when comparing high end Steinways to Faziolis.

Should I ignore the playing of Horowitz because he played on a Steinway? I care about emotion, and I can feel that in music played on a Steinway as well as music played on a Fazioli, and I've heard both live, of course.

Last edited by LarryK; 02/27/21 03:28 PM.
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Yes I tried to ignor the reaction from pianoloverus originally.
But then it seemed to be reffered to again. A comparison with a Kawai K500 and with some of the GL series may bring about more conflict from some here.
I personally would not compare my upright to a small Schimmel grand because I think differences would be greater than comparing some of those Kawai pianos.(depending on model and size) Perhaps it would sound far better than a small Wilhelm Schimmel ? However I have not tried those recently.

Generally it is better not to compare , sometimes for practical reasons it becomes necessary.For some people comparing any upright with a grand seems to be an insult which is unfortunate.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 02/27/21 03:37 PM. Reason: spelling
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The OP obviously needs a good upright piano and not a grand .She has made that clear.Besides what on earth is the Steinway grand about ?

Last edited by Lady Bird; 02/27/21 03:58 PM. Reason: spelling
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Well I suppose you do not want another Kawai although the K500 is really the nicest piano at a very reasonable price level you could get. Probably it will not be as loud as a U3 in your small room., but a wonderful piano at a good price.( a mellow sounding piano will not appear too loud in a small room.) It is best to make an appointment with Louen House ( the Kawai dealer) Ask if they have a K500 available. (they should do)
Have you tried any of the W Hoffmann uprights at showcase pianos. They are made in the Bechstein factory in the Czech Republic. (see Showcase pianos )
They have a really nice tone although some apparently can be quite bright.
Are you still dreaming of the Sauter at all ?

I tried Hoffmann as well. It's ok but doesn't really appeal to me. Sauter upright...nah...out of question it's 40K . And even open box is 28K ..which is surely too much money to pay for upright, because utimately, in a few years we do plan to move and at that point I will highly consider the grand. If I don't consider grand at all then I would consider the Sauter price range. I also tried the Bechstein as well. Love it too. 35K...also not something I would consider at this point...

I will try the Kawaii as well. And let you guys know how I feel about it. smile

Regarding the room, my house has floor heating so I *think* it absorb/block more sound with the concrete floor? Than comparing to all wood structure? I worry less of the sound travel to upstair but I worry just too loud for a small room.

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Hakki
Why don’t you start a new thread: ‘why you should always buy a grand’?
Continuing to post about grands where the OP has decided an upright is appropriate at this point in time just doesn’t feel right.


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I don't know if you have a Grotrian dealer in your area, but I very briefly played a Wilhelm Grotrian upright (their budget model around $11-12K on the sticker) and it was a very sweet sounding piano. Apparently these are assembled in Asia but finished in Germany.


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So many people seem to place their grands in a corner and play them into a wall just go get them to “fit”. Hmmm.


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Originally Posted by Hakki
That video is beyond unconvincing in the first part where it tries to show a small 5'1"grand and vertical take up the same amount of space.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 02/27/21 06:25 PM.
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Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
So many people seem to place their grands in a corner and play them into a wall just go get them to “fit”. Hmmm.

same here...why would we face the grand to the wall is the grand supposed to project the sound outside? Why project the sound towards the wall????

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Originally Posted by fibbi
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Well I suppose you do not want another Kawai although the K500 is really the nicest piano at a very reasonable price level you could get. Probably it will not be as loud as a U3 in your small room., but a wonderful piano at a good price.( a mellow sounding piano will not appear too loud in a small room.) It is best to make an appointment with Louen House ( the Kawai dealer) Ask if they have a K500 available. (they should do)
Have you tried any of the W Hoffmann uprights at showcase pianos. They are made in the Bechstein factory in the Czech Republic. (see Showcase pianos )
They have a really nice tone although some apparently can be quite bright.
Are you still dreaming of the Sauter at all ?

I tried Hoffmann as well. It's ok but doesn't really appeal to me. Sauter upright...nah...out of question it's 40K . And even open box is 28K ..which is surely too much money to pay for upright, because utimately, in a few years we do plan to move and at that point I will highly consider the grand. If I don't consider grand at all then I would consider the Sauter price range. I also tried the Bechstein as well. Love it too. 35K...also not something I would consider at this point...

I will try the Kawaii as well. And let you guys know how I feel about it. smile

Regarding the room, my house has floor heating so I *think* it absorb/block more sound with the concrete floor? Than comparing to all wood structure? I worry less of the sound travel to upstair but I worry just too loud for a small room.
Well perhaps you should have your piano attended to by a good tech. (if you are getting grand in a few years ) You cannot compare a Sauter to budget level upright. It is an excellent instrument for those who do not want just a run of the mill piano. However if you buy a U1 or U3 you probably would get a full trade up for a CX2. (you would also make Hakki's day) 🤣

Last edited by Lady Bird; 02/27/21 08:28 PM. Reason: spelling
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I have a YUS 5, I get it tuned every 2 months. If you play it or not, it goes out of tune. I also have a humidifier and dehumidifier and the room stays between 40 - 50 RH. Minimum tuning should be twice a year to keep the stings stretched. If you only tune every few years, it is not going to hold a tune. I bought the YUS 5 due to not wanting to dedicate space for a baby grand. If this is your life piano, I think it is worth the jump between U3 and YUS 5. I did buy mine new about 5 years ago.


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Originally Posted by Hakki
Why did you post this video without making any comment? Here are mine:
Why did he not position the upright across the marked floor width?
He unfairly denigrated the upright's using the terms 'box', 'significant', 'sacrifices' and 'compromises' regarding its tone and action. By implication he thinks that all uprights are inferior to a 5'1" 'Baby Grand'.
To me his tie tells it all about this biased 'education department. salesman.
Ian


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Yes one gets so tired of an upright being reffered to as a "box," It so tiresome because there is so much ignorance about the whole subject.

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It's just so crude.

A house is a box with a roof. A car is a box with wheels. An oven is a box you cook things in. A shower is a box you clean yourself in. And your toilet is a box for... well, you get the point.

Nobody refers to these things as "boxes" because it is an obvious oversimplification that, while perhaps technically true from a certain perspective, would lead directly to confusion and misunderstanding or at the very least less than efficient communication.

I'd walk straight out of that salesman's store, and tell him to crawl back into his box on the way out.

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Originally Posted by Wry Guy
It's just so crude.

A house is a box with a roof. A car is a box with wheels. An oven is a box you cook things in. A shower is a box you clean yourself in. And your toilet is a box for... well, you get the point.

Nobody refers to these things as "boxes" because it is an obvious oversimplification that, while perhaps technically true from a certain perspective, would lead directly to confusion and misunderstanding or at the very least less than efficient communication.

I'd walk straight out of that salesman's store, and tell him to crawl back into his box on the way out.
I think you have made our day !

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At least I called all pianos, noisy boxes, so I think I'm in the clear. I didn't disparage uprights as boxes without insulting grands at the same time, lol.

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That sales person must be only talking to very knowledgeable pianist, from that commercial as a hobbyist I would think the Steinway upright is not that good, so if I was in the market for an upright, I would bypass that one. The way he presented, don't get the Steinway upright. When I first started lessons 7 years ago, I did not know what tone and color was, he is over some peoples knowledge level. I would have presented it as from the beginner to the accomplished pianist have two wonderful choices to fit your needs.

People base decisions on space, ability level, cost, and personal values. For me, I wanted a new piano and a quality piano. I considered space and my ability level at that time which was about 1 and a half years of lessons and went with the YUS 5. As a hobbyist can't justify paying more for a piano. When it comes to a piano (for the average person) do you enjoy it and are you having fun............that really all that counts.


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Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
Yes, Fazioli prices are now more in line Steinway. From people I have talked to that either own or sell both, all agree that Fazioli is a piano and Steinway is just furniture. 😆
Hard to figure out even what you mean by this. It's certainly not true, and I don't see any humor if that was intended.

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