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Originally Posted by Windjammer
Bechstein: I have no beef with the company. I actually enjoy their pianos from back in the day. My displeasure, such as it is, is limited to certain owners and junior employees whose personality traits seem highly dysfunctional,...

Are You the person who emailed Bechstein, to complain about OE1FEU’s comments, here at PW


~Lucubrate


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Surely not !
I.mean I these three posters have written enough weird stuff about these particular European brands , but Lucubrate I cannot really believe that any member of PW would actually do that !
I have noticed that the Bechstein employee you mentioned is a member of a few forums. The one is Clavio de .I cannot remember which the others are. Perhaps it is one of thier members ? This would be a very serious matter.

My wish is that we can just appreciate these
European brands without this constant suspicion that seems to have been projected at manufacturers that do not have German ownership !
For example the statement that new Schimmel uprights are not expensive in Germany ? Well one can check that up on Klaviano .

Last edited by Lady Bird; 02/23/21 12:06 AM. Reason: spelling
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Surely not !
I.mean I these three posters have written enough weird stuff about these particular European brands , but Lucubrate I cannot really believe that any member of PW would actually do that !
I have noticed that the Bechstein employee you mentioned is a member of a few forums. The one is Clavio de .I cannot remember which the others are. Perhaps it is one of thier members ? This would be a very serious matter.

My wish is that we can just appreciate these
European brands without this constant suspicion that seems to have been projected at manufacturers that do not have German ownership !
For example the statement that new Schimmel uprights are not expensive in Germany ? Well one can check that up on Klaviano .


Sorry, someone from Piano World contacted Bechstein management. It did happen and from what was written he was certain it came from PW.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Surely not !
I.mean I these three posters have written enough weird stuff about these particular European brands , but Lucubrate I cannot really believe that any member of PW would actually do that !
I have noticed that the Bechstein employee you mentioned is a member of a few forums. The one is Clavio de .I cannot remember which the others are. Perhaps it is one of thier members ? This would be a very serious matter.

My wish is that we can just appreciate these
European brands without this constant suspicion that seems to have been projected at manufacturers that do not have German ownership !
For example the statement that new Schimmel uprights are not expensive in Germany ? Well one can check that up on Klaviano .


Sorry, someone from Piano World contacted Bechstein management. It did happen and from what was written he was certain it came from PW.
That wasn't me. I'm a firm believer in the notion that stupidity is its own worst form of punishment.


"Ein Buch ist ein Spiegel, aus dem kein Apostel herausgucken kann, wenn ein Affe hineinguckt." Georg Christoph Lichtenberg (1742-1799)
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Originally Posted by Windjammer
That wasn't me.

Good to Know

Because it was a Pathetically Weak move

By some Weasel


~Lucubrate


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Originally Posted by S. Phillips
You can have the most beautiful design but if the design does not include very strict demands for quality materials it won't be a good piano. You can have quality materials and poorly trained workers and it will be bad. But for a piano to have the projection, sustain, clarity of tone and color, you must have all three things: good design, the best tonal materials and craftsmen who can spot an error and have the authority to correct it.
I really appreciate your statement, very professional. That's what I always tell others when they desire to buy a high-performance piano. With the "no free lunch" criteria in mind, consumers are not likely to be misled by exaggerate ads. These ads really exist in today's market. Most buyers are not well informed about pianos as posters here.

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Windjammer and Zeitlos are quite good guys. Having read more of their threads, I believe they won't ever do such meaningless thing. laugh

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Originally Posted by aesop
Originally Posted by S. Phillips
... you must have all three things: good design, the best tonal materials and craftsmen who can spot an error and have the authority to correct it.

Agreed. Even if the are no "errors" in the sense of something wrong, an accumulation of manufacturing tolerances will cause inconsistencies. With over 100 parts for each of 88 notes, not to mention the variations in grain in the soundboard and so on, some points are bound to need expert attention.


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I think top manufacturers, even small ones, are not just only for their family business now. They're legends, their quality being concerned and supervised by all the pianists and amateurs of the world. That means responsibility. In the fierce market competition today, I don't think their Asian supporters will take the risk of doing anything harmful to the German/Austrian makes. And in my personal opinion "being busy making fine pianos" is basically a good way to gain long-term trust.

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Originally Posted by aesop
I think top manufacturers, even small ones, are not just only for their family business now. They're legends, their quality being concerned and supervised by all the pianists and amateurs of the world. That means responsibility. In the fierce market competition today, I don't think their Asian supporters will take the risk of doing anything harmful to the German/Austrian makes. And in my personal opinion "being busy making fine pianos" is basically a good way to gain long-term trust.
I agree aesop !

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Wow! Where did all the vitriol come from. I'm casually reading the thread and suddenly things got personal. Too bad I didn't have popcorn at the ready. I was just wondering if anyone was going to just let it go or was this a battle between people who have to have the last word.

Only Sally Phillips really nailed the difference between high end and mass produced pianos. As I was reading I was thinking some companies have people who carve sound boards until they get a certain responsiveness. Whether that's done by ear or using some methodology to measure it's a skill that's highly valuable to those manufacturers. It's a combination of small adjustments during manufacturing that makes a high end piano worth the cost to those who can afford it. So handmade vs. mass produced is not the way to think about it.


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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I wonder if Windjammer and Zeitlos care about people who are owners of these pianos and the hurt they may cause them. (Bechstein, Seiler and Schimmel)

Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I do not want to discuss this any further with the two posters .


I really don’t know if you are just confusing me with someone else or whether you are just confused yourself.
What is this stuff you make up all about? What are you talking about anyway?

I really don’t know why you are attacking me. All I can say is that I don’t like being publicly associated with any strange fantasies.



Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I would be careful what you say however. Windjammer The dealer I bought from is a really larger company. Schimmel in Germany is aware of what is being said here.


Are you threatening other people here because they may (in parts) have a different opinion than you?


If, for whatever reason, you don't want to talk to anyone, it would be nice if you don't replace that with talking (badly and wrongly) about them. It's a very unsavory experience.

I would ask those people who only want to argue here in an opinionated way to look for another thread. The topic of the thread is quite an interesting one and it would be a shame if other people could no longer exchange their opinions because of a few contentious people. It is definitely not the place to go to get rid of personal problems.

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Originally Posted by Steve Chandler
Wow! Where did all the vitriol come from. I'm casually reading the thread and suddenly things got personal. Too bad I didn't have popcorn at the ready. I was just wondering if anyone was going to just let it go or was this a battle between people who have to have the last word.

I was very surprised when I found out what out of a sudden was going on here. So far the exchange has been interesting.

Originally Posted by Steve Chandler
It's a combination of small adjustments during manufacturing that makes a high end piano worth the cost to those who can afford it. So handmade vs. mass produced is not the way to think about it.

Yes, a few interesting and helpful comments have been made here already to helps me understand how to grade “handmade” vs “factory/machine made” etc. So handmade doesn’t necessarily translate into “better” and “machine made not into “worse”. There are good reasons for both approaches, quite often it will be a mixture.

Last edited by zeitlos; 02/25/21 11:24 AM.
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I just got back from my local dealer.

My new Baby-Schimmel smile

No idea whether it was made by hand or not. But I like it smile

[Linked Image]

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Ha! What is that? A bench? Toy piano? I am very curious. (Sorry if it was mentioned earlier in the thread.)


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Originally Posted by aesop
I think top manufacturers, even small ones, are not just only for their family business now. They're legends, their quality being concerned and supervised by all the pianists and amateurs of the world. That means responsibility.

Maybe you saw the video I once posted here on this forum about Mr. Schimmel (senior) visiting a(n ordinary) family somewhere. He remembered selling a piano to them when he accompanied his father when he was a child. It’s on Youtube. This is really lovely to see and differentiates companies which are (at least in some way) run by family members from other big firms. There are stories to tell. Life (and also music) is about stories.
I also remember seeing a video where one family member (not named Schimmel) came into the manufacturing hall to tell the waiting staff that their company has been saved by a new investor and that the family will continue to have a say in it. They cheered and he told them, that this day is a day to celebrate and they can go home immediately to enjoy the day. Again, that underlines the humane approach of the whole undertaking.

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Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
Ha! What is that? A bench? Toy piano? I am very curious. (Sorry if it was mentioned earlier in the thread.)

Will upload a quick photo later smile

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Oh hi Zeitlos how are you ? I hope you are well ?
I am not sure what's going on either ?
The last time Windjammer and I were talking was days again !

What is that photograph ?
A stained box on the street labeled SCHIMMEL , and what is the bottle ? Vodka ?
Did you go to a party at Schimmel last night ? Since we both are Schimmel owners I could have gone as well.....I am a bit far though and stuck because of Covid . At 71 my husband would not let me go whizzing around the world ....besides I do not think it's allowed.

Perhaps some black coffee may help ?

You were so kind to me when I first got my new Schimmel , you congratulated me in the sub forum ( My New Piano ) ,and I even said we could were members of the Schimmel club. 🌹
(actually I really did ! ) Oh well Lord Bird is always right , he always said I was rather naive.....

Thanks I appreciated that ! 😊 ( I think that was one of your first posts)
Please stay well. Let's be friends! 💐
Karyn

Last edited by Lady Bird; 02/25/21 02:22 PM. Reason: spelling
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Originally Posted by zeitlos
I just got back from my local dealer.

My new Baby-Schimmel smile

No idea whether it was made by hand or not. But I like it smile

[Linked Image]

Oh wow, just seeing the bottle of Adelholzener next to the box and the sunny door makes me soooo nostalgic for Munich (lived and worked there for ca. five years). Bavaria is just so stunningly beautiful and cosy... and, on the subject of this thread, I do think Bavaria still has some of the finest craftsmen in the world.

Please do reveal what the box contains! It looks to me like it could be a piano bench.


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Yes we have been to Bavaria and it is beautiful. I love the countryside especially., However Munich is beautiful as well .
When Zeitlos was considering different pianos ( I think Sauter was one ), I suggested he go and try this piano. Riemeling is in Bavaria I think.
It is of course the same model Schimmel I have. Actually the Wilhemina Konzert is too elaborate for me., but as a "look back"no doubt to a 19th century Schimmel, it is rather nice.
If you look at the description it gives the specifications.

.

https://www.klaviano.com/pianos-for-sale/schimmel/schimmel-k132.html

Last edited by Lady Bird; 02/25/21 11:02 PM. Reason: missing text
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