Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Another opinion seeker for upright piano

Once the hammer leaves the jack it is in free flight. Therefore the only things that can change the sound of a piano note are:

- Speed of key depression
- use of 'una corda' pedal
- use of sustain pedal

Ian

You are mistaken in your belief that the keys on an upright have "to go all the way up". In the case of my Blüthner can fast repeat after 1/3 way up.

Ian

Early on in your posts you mentioned a restriction to getting a grand was your son's room size. The Kawai is 5' 11", plus 3' for technician access means a free area of 8'11".

Anyhow you seem to have decided on a nice grand piano and I'm sure that it will give your family many hours of pleasure, presumably now in your lounge and not your son's room.

Ian

If you read my earlier reply, I did admit that I never had the fortune to play high-end uprights. Not trying to play word game here, but my statement you quoted did not exclude high-end uprights either.

At least you and I should agree that your Bluthner Model A is a high-end upright. It also carries a price tag that is enough for probably two "consumer-grade" 6-foot grand pianos.

I have to admit that it's been several years since I seriously tried any uprights. But when I was shopping for our Yamaha GB1 in 2005, we were under significant financial and space constraints that there was no way we would be able to spend greater than $8K, or squeeze in a decent larger grand. So we tried quite a few uprights within that price range.

My experience with the "mainstream" uprights (not spinets) had been that while one can play the note with the key started at about 50% pressed, this is not consistent. That is, sometimes the note would sound, sometimes not, and the sonority/timbre is not easily controlled.

A few years later (I think 2009) my wife and I went with our friends who were buying a piano for their daughters to start learning. They themselves did not play much piano, so my wife and I played each model for them to listen to. Their price target was about the same as when we bought our GB1, and they would want to get an upright. I don't recall all the brands we tried at the shop, but the usual suspects of Kawai, Yamaha, and actually W. Steinberg too. We got the same impression from this round too.

On the other hand, even the crappy metallic sounding rental grand we got, back in the 1990s for one of our college student recital to pair with a Bosendorfer 213 in the recital hall to allow for two-piano repertoire, could handle this task much better.

I would like to think that a small-production firm like Steingraeber must have a reason to put in resources to develop something like SFM. Your Bluthner may have also some adjustment, unbeknownst to a layperson like me, to make it more responsive.

BTW, my lowly Yahama GB1 can repeat the notes at about 20% up (total key travel at the edge of naturals-10 mm; able to reliably repeat the notes-2mm from the bottom; I just measured this across the compass.)

To make a conclusion on this thread ... a big thank to all of you! I realised that, going deeper in the problem, I know less and less. On the end, as a step forward from CA-65, we bought a brand new, made in Japan, Kawai K-300. We've got a really good price (I think ), around 4300€, and it is ok for us, as the next level (K-500) is around 2000€ more expensive, and, in this stage, K-300 also gives a big step forward. The final solution, a grand piano (from this point preferably GL-40 or any similar, around 180cm) could be realized in the next 3-4 years, if my son decides to go for the music (meaning - enroll the Academy).
So, the instrument is in the room, waiting for hours and hours of torturing .
And, the quick step now, right after selling CA-65, will be portable piano (Kawai ES110/ES8 or Yamaha P115/P255), needing for going on a distant competitions, vacations, summer hollydays etc. But, that is the subject for my next thread. In a short time

To raise this topic or open a new one ... situation is that we are changing the instrument. After 4 years of Kawai K-300, we need to make a progress to grand piano. So any suggestion will be appreciated. A few starting points:
- new or refubrished?
- budget ... around 15000€
- should fit in rather small room (15sqm)
- should have silence mode (aftermarket also ok) - something like Genio

Our thoughts go for refurbrished yamaha C2 or C3 ... as new as possible, but of course should be inspected before purchase. Kawai (new product) GL-30 or GL-40 are a bit over budget, but some of my son's comments for kawai grands (as he already has some experience) is that they need to be tuned rather often than Yamaha ... especially, as he has a "strong hand" ... our K300 lost a few strings, bass strings, during his practices.
What are the key things we should pay attention in the choosing process,, especially with used/refurbished pianos?

Set a budget and then let your son choose. Get your son's teacher to "approve" any choice, and hire a piano technician to evaluate any used instrument being considered.

Beyond that, the challenge will be to find a piano with "silence mode."

Or buy a used digital piano for silent practice. It’s significantly less expensive and far more available than a grand or upright with a silent system.

It is inexpensive to have a silencing rail added to an upright piano.

I've not played any of the newer "made in China" Baldwin pianos, but they are the same or very similar designs to Baldwin's excellent post-WW2 pianos, and Baldwin claims that their quality control for these pianos matches that of the pianos they made in the US.

As such, I think these pianos are worth investigating given the price range being considered.

Muting rail is easy. Silencing is difficult.

Both terms are used regularly for the device in question.

I have one in my piano. Until recently, I hadn't found it useful because it eliminates any synamic shading or feedbsck between youch and tone/dynamics, which makes it unsatisfactory for playing a piece. But I recently discovered that it works fine for playing a short phrase repeatedly when learning the notes of a piece.

I have been considering replacing the felt with silk to turn it into a celeste rail similar to what was used in many fortepianos for classical era expression.

Very true - however they want to move up to a grand.

Yes. Recycling the old thread with upright in the title was a source of confusion.

Understandable.

Thanks all for opinions. Some remarks:
- once on his level, there is no substitution in digital piano. Aftermarket silence system is around 2000euro for grand piano. Already have Yamaha digital piano. Simply not good enough.
- My question was generally pointed to refurbished yamahas, which you can buy in almost all bigger piano stores. Are those pianos good value? They are not that much cheaper to depend on luck (what was the history of that instrument), so I wouldn't like to have a lemon taste by that decision. Also, what are the weakest points in such refurbished pianos? Somehow, even though we have Kawai upright, I'm slightly on Yamaha side.
Waiting for re-opening borders in EU for going to showrooms and investigate "on site"