2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Week Deals
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
34 members (ando, cygnusdei, Dfrankjazz, dima5222, Charles Cohen, 13 invisible), 995 guests, and 394 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Hi,

My question is: how much can be improved the sound of a piano through intonation and voicing?

I heard a few Kawai GL-30 and GL-20 online and their sound seemed to me interesting. However, in the showroom where I played a GL-30 its sound did not seem so "deep" as I heard online.

What is your experience?


"I tell my piano things" that I don’t have to tell everyone.
smile
Frederic Chopin (revisited)
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,301
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,301
This is a loaded question, but I will bite, because that is what I do around here.

"You heard online"...how were you listening? (iPhone, studio speakers, 2.1 sound, headphones, AirPods, etc) What recording equipment did they use? (iPhone, good mics in a bad position, bad mics in a good position, etc)

Intonation, voicing, regulation. Oof, it's tough. Techs can do a lot. It really boils down to the individual tech and what they are willing to try. BUT, BUT pianos will often "find their way back" to what they want to sound like, so it's best to understand that you should find a piano that sounds mostly how you want it to sound, rather than expecting a tech to make the piano sound the way you want it to sound. (Yes, your house and a showfloor are huge variables, but you can't test every piano in your home.)

A lot can be said about preparation from the dealer, though.

Four years ago(?) I played the GL-30 and GL-20 side by side, and I actually preferred the GL-20, believe it or not. It sounded way better and deeper, like you said yourself. But, I have a general rule that grand pianos shorter than 6'0" (5'6" with some brands if you twist my arm) are a huge waste of money and you are better off getting a great, high-end, tall upright for the same price or even less. But I am a player and see pianos as an instrument, thus I completely ignore the furniture aspect of a grand.


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!

Current:
1998 PETROF Model IV Chippendale
LEGO Grand Piano (IDEAS 031|21323)
YAMAHA PSR-520

Past:
2017 Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony
1991 Kawai 602-M Console in Oak
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,878
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,878
Pianos are very individual instruments. To me, a recording doesn’t really tell me how a piano sounds and feels from the bench. Perhaps the GL30 was slightly out of tune or maybe not in the best position. Personally, I’d go back a second time and play both again. If you still like the GL20 more, then get the GL20. For me and the pianos I tried, bigger is usually better. But we’re individuals just like acoustic pianos.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
The reason I’m old and wise is because God protected me when I was young and stupid.
[Linked Image]
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
Hi Guido,
I sent you a PM message., I am sorry for taking so long to answer you. I have tried a few of the GL series ,so it may just
help. The main thing is to play as many pianos as possible.

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
Guido
Congratulations on your new Kawai grand .Please send us pictures when the piano arrives


https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/kawai/

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,878
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,878
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Guido
Congratulations on your new Kawai grand .Please send us pictures when the piano arrives


https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/kawai/

Guido, So which one did you select?


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
The reason I’m old and wise is because God protected me when I was young and stupid.
[Linked Image]
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 135
I chose a GL-30. It seems that in Italy the GL-20 is not imported.

I liked the sound better than the GL-10, especially the bass section and its sound was fuller in the mid section. I will get the piano only in the next two months or so because I am waiting for the money. I only left a small amount of money to ensure the purchase and the price agreed with the seller.

In the waiting time I have a lot of thinking. Did I make the right choice? Should I had waited for a special opportunity on a used piano? Should I had spend more on a Yamaha GC2 (2.000 more)?

You know, a lot of doubts, even because I do not see many comments on the GL-30. I only watched a nice presentation of GL-20 on youtube by Stu Harrison from Merriam music piano, and a few others. Nothing much more in this forum or elsewhere.

I know that more expensive pianos sound better. I was also wonder if for the same price (13.300 euro) I could have found a better choice. I also was uncertain about a W. Sheiler baby grand that had a nice sound but I could not find any information about it, besides that is produced in China and finished in Germany.

Last edited by Guido, Roma - Italy; 02/19/21 01:52 AM.

"I tell my piano things" that I don’t have to tell everyone.
smile
Frederic Chopin (revisited)
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,878
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,878
Originally Posted by Guido, Roma - Italy
I chose a GL-30. It seems that in Italy the GL-20 is not imported.

I liked the sound better than the GL-10, especially the bass section and its sound was fuller in the mid section. I will get the piano only in the next two months or so because I am waiting for the money. I only left a small amount of money to ensure the purchase and the price agreed with the seller.

In the waiting time I have a lot of thinking. Did I make the right choice? Should I had waited for a special opportunity on a used piano? Should I had spend more on a Yamaha GC2 (2.000 more)?

You know, a lot of doubts, even because I do not see many comments on the GL-30. I only watched a nice presentation of GL-20 on youtube by Stu Harrison from Merriam music piano, and a few others. Nothing much more in this forum or elsewhere.

I know that more expensive pianos sound better. I was also wonder if for the same price (13.300 euro) I could have found a better choice. I also was uncertain about a W. Sheiler baby grand that had a nice sound but I could not find any information about it, besides that is produced in China and finished in Germany.

Hi Guido, I think you made an excellent choice. Second thoughts always haunt new piano buyers before their new piano is delivered. Kawai makes excellent pianos and you’ve been researching and shopping for a piano available in your location for quite some time. There are always more expensive pianos out there but since many of the high end German pianos are unaffordable and unavailable in my area and yours, I don’t worry about if I could have made a better choice. I just enjoy playing the piano I bought that was in my price range and was located not too far from my home. Congratulations on your new Kawai and please post pictures when it’s delivered.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
The reason I’m old and wise is because God protected me when I was young and stupid.
[Linked Image]
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
Guido,
From your pm it sounds as though you prefer the tone of the Yamaha GC2 but you find the the touch a little heavier.
I remember when my parents bought me a Kawai grand the touch was significantly heavier than the older uprights I had played up to that point.It took me a very short time to get used to the Kawai grand. In those days Kawai pianos had a fairly heavy key resistance.The tone was wonderful .

The thing to remember is I was a young teenager at quite an advanced level. I think you would be able to adjust to the touch of the Yamaha piano.(I cannot promise).Is this a new piano ? Make sure they regulate any new piano that you buy .(prep the instrument)

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,541
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,541
Originally Posted by Guido, Roma - Italy
I know that more expensive pianos sound better. I was also wonder if for the same price (13.300 euro) I could have found a better choice.
That’s an excellent price for a GL30. I’m sure you’ll love it, it’s a very nice instrument! 😍


Lisa
Chief Cook & Pot Scrubber @ Cunningham Piano Club 🎹
Cunningham Studio Grand & Yamaha CLP645

"I tell my piano the things I used to tell you." - Frederic Chopin
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
Guido,
In your pm to me you mentioned that it may be more difficult to get used to the tone of the GL30 than the more the heavier touch of the Yamaha GC2. You also.preffered the tone of the GC2 over the GL30.

I really believe you have to love the tone of the piano you buy !
I do realise the GC2 is $2,000 more expensive. Of course when the budget is stretched that amount may just be too much.

No one here is really able to tell you which piano to choose. All these pianos are good instruments, so are all of the used pianos you mentioned. (Kawai RX, Schultz Pollmann etc )
Whatever you decide I wish good luck in your choice.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 02/19/21 09:14 PM. Reason: missing text
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 135
I might have the budget to buy the more expensive GC2, my doubt raise since I am not so sure it is worthed 2.000 more. Looking at the comments it seems just a devolution from the Yamaha C2 series without any special improvements. On the other hand, the GL series is new it collects some of the features of the GX series and is an improvement compared to the GM series.

I did not find any comparison on youtube, just a comparison between the GL-30 and the GC2 and they sounded almost the same.

Grand Piano Comparison; Yamaha GC1 vs Kawai GL30 (from the Bonners Center)

Last edited by Guido, Roma - Italy; 02/20/21 05:04 PM.

"I tell my piano things" that I don’t have to tell everyone.
smile
Frederic Chopin (revisited)
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Comparison GC1 vs GL-30:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhaI2yIhHKs

In the second piece, Chopin's Nocturne Opus 1 No 2 in B flat minor, the two pianos sound almost identical to me. Perhaps a proof that I should not rely on my ears choosing a piano?

In the presentation, the guy says that the keyboard of GC1 is lighter compared to GL-30, my experience has been the opposite. This is very disturbing. At least, should not the judgments on the touch be more objective? I understand the preferences on sounds, but differences in how people feel the touch seem a little strange to me.

Last edited by Guido, Roma - Italy; 02/20/21 05:21 PM.

"I tell my piano things" that I don’t have to tell everyone.
smile
Frederic Chopin (revisited)
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Comparison GC1 vs GC2, at CunninghamPiano:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgrdyGmLlnk&list=RDDhaI2yIhHKs&index=2

Can you hear the difference? I do not.

Last edited by Guido, Roma - Italy; 02/20/21 05:30 PM.

"I tell my piano things" that I don’t have to tell everyone.
smile
Frederic Chopin (revisited)
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,878
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,878
Originally Posted by Guido, Roma - Italy
Comparison GC1 vs GC2, at CunninghamPiano:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgrdyGmLlnk&list=RDDhaI2yIhHKs&index=2

Can you hear the difference? I do not.

Even consumer tiered acoustic pianos like the Cx series Yamahas and GX series Kawai are very individual instruments. YouTube reviews and comparisons may not reflect your own experience trying out the pianos. I’m no psychologist but it seems you’re trying to convince yourself you made the right choice. Maybe make an appointment to play the GL30 again before delivery.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
The reason I’m old and wise is because God protected me when I was young and stupid.
[Linked Image]
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by j&j
YouTube reviews and comparisons may not reflect your own experience trying out the pianos. I’m no psychologist but it seems you’re trying to convince yourself you made the right choice. Maybe make an appointment to play the GL30 again before delivery.

Dear j&j,

I guess you are right, I'm trying to convince myself that I made the right choice! Writing and reading your kind comments helps me to clear my thoughts.

Spending 2.600 more (I checked again the prices difference) is not a light decision for me, even though I know that the amount should be considered distributed over the years (suppose 20 years, it is 130 euro a year). This us my first and likely last piano in my life (I am 66).

My greater resistance to choose the GC2 comes from the idea I have that the GL series is superior compared to the GC series (perhaps not a huge difference but something that counts in my opinion). I even tried to find more information on the GC2 but I did not find anything.

I know that all the members of the forum suggest to choose the sound that i like the most,

however,

I am doubtful about the possibility to really compare the sound of two pianos. If there is not a big difference, who can really tell how any of the piano we choose will sound in a different environment?

Am I doing a too big issue about two substantially similar economic pianos?


"I tell my piano things" that I don’t have to tell everyone.
smile
Frederic Chopin (revisited)
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 188
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 188
Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
This is a loaded question, but I will bite, because that is what I do around here.

"You heard online"...how were you listening? (iPhone, studio speakers, 2.1 sound, headphones, AirPods, etc) What recording equipment did they use? (iPhone, good mics in a bad position, bad mics in a good position, etc)

Intonation, voicing, regulation. Oof, it's tough. Techs can do a lot. It really boils down to the individual tech and what they are willing to try. BUT, BUT pianos will often "find their way back" to what they want to sound like, so it's best to understand that you should find a piano that sounds mostly how you want it to sound, rather than expecting a tech to make the piano sound the way you want it to sound. (Yes, your house and a showfloor are huge variables, but you can't test every piano in your home.)

A lot can be said about preparation from the dealer, though.

Four years ago(?) I played the GL-30 and GL-20 side by side, and I actually preferred the GL-20, believe it or not. It sounded way better and deeper, like you said yourself. But, I have a general rule that grand pianos shorter than 6'0" (5'6" with some brands if you twist my arm) are a huge waste of money and you are better off getting a great, high-end, tall upright for the same price or even less. But I am a player and see pianos as an instrument, thus I completely ignore the furniture aspect of a grand.

SonatainfSharp: Thanx! That was very helpful.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Working on Alfred's Adult AIO Book 2
1970's: Took piano lessons. 2021: This old man is giving it a 2nd go.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Feel The Power>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Allegretto from Granados Escenas Romanticas Fingering
by luthierone - 12/03/21 11:57 PM
Ohio Valley Gem
by Jayekanan - 12/03/21 11:10 PM
For those who play David Nevue
by ShiroKuro - 12/03/21 10:39 PM
Tone of a Fazioli Piano and How to Voice it?
by PianoLover123 - 12/03/21 06:07 PM
Kawai CN29 or CN39
by Teresaw - 12/03/21 02:42 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,377
Posts3,150,505
Members103,510
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5