Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Pianoteq 7 has now been released

Yeah, pretty much what I was thinking. Our physical pianos are constantly changing daily based on the environment they are in. So many factors and variables can change the sound. It might not be noticed daily, but over time those subtle changes to the variables would add up.
Also, I think if you could 'speed up the changes' with like a time warp. Say ' under these conditions over the next 6 months with my piano in this environment, it now sounds like x'.

It might help me stop playing with presets and things and just let the preset evolve organically.

And I am sure they can do that!

CG, сould you add midi messages to your audio examples. Then other users will be able to compare the sound on their systems and in their programs. It may not be very clear what feel and speed of playing on your keyboard certain midi speeds produce. But when you talk about the peculiarities of the sound at certain midi speeds - this can be understandable because other users can check these midi files and compare the sound.


Comparing Pianoteq to the Garritan Library:

- it may be necessary to set the "unison width" value to 1.4-1.6 in Pianoteq for comparison by the library.

-Library sounds ~ 12dB quieter than Pianoteq. (when compared out of the box). You need to lower the volume on the Pianoteq for comparison.

-the pedal does not work properly in the library. I can't use the pickup pedal - when old harmonies are "cleaned up" and a new play is added on top (this comes out awkwardly). The half-pedal cuts off the sound and has no duration. Pianoteq has no problem with this ..

-In the library, the endings of chords in staccato sound artificially. They seem to break off. It doesn't sound neat. Pianoteq has no problem with this ..

- the staccato game is very strange at the library. The tails of the notes are not very neatly chopped off. Pianoteq has no problem with this ..

- the high notes are a little more rounded at the library. I have to agree.

- I hear recording noise when playing high notes. And the noise is cut off when the note is released. Not very nice. Not natural. Pianoteq has no problem with this ..

-the library has a few notes that are not tuned the way I would like. And nothing can be done about it. Pianoteq has no problem with this ..

-but the biggest problem is the limited set of layers in the library. This is clearly felt with your fingers when you play (even on my keyboard, which uses rubber sensors (like a TV remote ... in principle, like almost all other keyboards). This is a jump in timbre between layers. It is simply impossible to practice. Pianoteq has no problem with this. ..

- all the same, the development of the timbre of the library is more natural. And it can be well used in a mix for some kind of music. But this is not suitable for daily activities. Especially if later you need to play a real instrument. The library does not react and does not interact with the performer as fully as Pianoteq does.

CG, you kind of have a nice instrument from Yamaha. With real mechanics. Have you thought about putting your optical sensor into it in order to find out and correlate (compare) the midi values at different speeds? What values does the tool give and what can be obtained from your measurements? Curious if there is any standardization in this? How do the midi speed values for different hammers correlate at different speeds (bass and treble)? This is a rather curious question.

« This is a jump in timbre between layers. It is simply impossible to practice. Pianoteq has no problem with this. .. »

Perhaps the VSL products have not this drawback. I have read Synchron product have 60 levels (each level covers 2 MIDI values), and Vienna Imperial has up to 100 levels !

Well look at you, going into full-nerd mode. Still, NO!

Here's my attempt to repro the issue in a fair and semi-rigorous method:



This plays the higher octave keys with MIDI velocity 5 to 40 in increments of 5. I made a mistake and the test goes above high C, but it does not affect the results.

Keep an eye on the velocity graph and keep an eye on the green audio level indicator.

This is the waveform:



I could not see, hear, or perceive any issues. This is a linear velocity curve and, to me, it's behaving exactly as expected. For different behavior in the higher octaves, the curve would have to be modified.

I'm not sure I was understood correctly. It's not about programming it through MIDI and then observing the produced volume. I'm not even sure it's the volume that's the problem. Rather the attack, the harmonic content or something like that.

Unfortunately it seems the only way to notice it is to just play it very lightly and listen with your ears. It acts weirdly and is unlike any acoustic, digital or virtual piano. It just plops a bit too much instead of creating a soft sound. Might be something related to the N1X MIDI but I'm not sure why that would be since the N1X is generating low enough MIDI velocities and works OK with other pianos.

Once again, listening to my demos it's not very obvious, so that wasn't a good demo. You just need to play it. I guess you may compare it to the NV10 internal sound. Just listen how the NV10 reacts to very light touch in high octaves and to gradual increase of the touch force. Then do the same with Pianoteq. It sounds like a machine gun (but that's a very big word, I'm using it to make my point, the effect is subtler than a machine gun but has the same characteristics)

My thought was that MIDI would make it more objective, since you can see exactly what is being played and with what velocity. I'll play it by ear some more later to see if I understand it.

One thing to call out if you're comparing Pianoteq to CFX -- you'll want to make sure the volume for soft and loud are about comparable. Pianoteq makes it easy to adjust this with the Dynamics and Volume sliders.

Is same problem evident on the Blüthner Model 1?

Cool, I am glad it helped. No, I typically won't use the player perspective for a recording. But, I find it perfect for practicing, especially when listening with monitor speakers. I don't use headphones much, so I am not sure if that will be ideal for headphones.

Osho

Yes, I meant NY Steinway D Player Clean. My bad.

Yes, I agree with that. It may be that their presets are done by recording engineers who want a sound that just works for a studio - but IMHO, it is not the right for pianist playing at home wanting to feel like a grand piano is in their home.

I agree with this. And, this is precisely the reason why I find youtube videos (or audio recordings) of VSTs totally useful for deciding whether to buy a VST. They all sound wonderful in those audio recordings/youtube demos. But, when I play the VST with my fingers and listen with my ears, that's when I find whether I will actually like the VST or not.

I couldn't hear any issues either. But, as CG said, it is a playability issue and hard to communicate via a recording.

Here are the couple of preset fxp files that I like for practicing with monitor speakers. They have 0 reverb, so feel free to add some as per your taste, if so inclined.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/78uwaaeafo4d71l/NY%20Steinway%20D%20Player%20Clean%20Mod.fxp?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wnmt1mzs6gfqdsc/C.%20Bechstein%20DG%20Player%20Mod.fxp?dl=0

I wouldn't use these for recordings - but for practicing with speakers, I find them perfect in my room.

Osho

Pianoteq already has this feature. There is a slider at the bottom: Condition. It can be set from "Mint" to "Worn". And, it basically ages the piano. Even the GUI changes to reflect the condition of the instrument .

Osho

It is not automated, it would be cool if this function could evolve by itself day after day

This is how we end up with Skynet.

I am fine with this as long as Skynet builds robots that are so efficient that a 9' Concert grand acoustic piano can be produced for $1000 . Freedom of humanity is so overrated...:).

Osho

Being a French company, the rep would be: Modartt Jacques. 😁

Welcome to the Skynet Piano Network (SPN)......... would you like to play an etude? :-)

What you don't like Etude's. I shall now take over your domicile and only play Etudes This is SPN!

V7.2!

Interesting:

7.2.0 (2021/02/12)

• NY Steinway D update: power/duration increased in the bass range, upper two octaves revoiced in the ppp-mp range.
• Fixed bug in the harmonic and sustain pedals resonances.