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but she most likely has accomplished more than anyone in this thread....

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My goal in piano is to be able to play Rachmaninoff and Scriabin as soon as possible, I don't really care about any other music.....

I just joined recently as well and told myself that I will genuinely be nothing but positive and cordial on here, and have been, but everything about your introductory and subsequent posts, and esp. these quotes, is just gratingly presumptuous and almost jokingly naive. And this is coming from a fellow beginner.

Quote
(but mozart/beethoven kind of bore me, at least their easier stuff does. I love the symphonies and concerti, but it past my level)

I mean, geez.. You seem to be unaware of the fact that almost everything is past your level. I invite you to attempt any of Mozart’s Piano Sonatas and get past 10 bars. these are deceptively difficult pieces, each and every one. Beethoven’s are another level, unless you’re talking about his WoO Sonatas.

Again, as a beginner myself, I get extreme joy from recently learning the Waltz from Grieg’s Lyric Pieces Book 1 and am now attempting (stressing that word) the Norsk Melody. I personally think he’s an underrated composer and those Lyric Pieces are godsends to beginners like you and I. Someone mentioned Anna Magdalena. You should be eating those up and enjoy playing them. That boring WTC Prelude should be a blessing to play. Some people would be happy if they only learned to play that their whole life. I hate to rehash what was already said, but to say you 'can do it in your sleep’ at the level you’re at is just terribly off-putting.

I am in a similar but much less absurd boat. I too am not advanced but somehow have the ability to play to a certain level or improvise certain passages that belies my actual overall prowess and knowledge. If your idea of enjoying the piano and not being ‘bored’ by it is being able to magically play the ossia cadenza from Rach 3, let alone the whole thing, as if it doesn’t take decades to get to the point of just getting the notes down, then I have to say, it’s an awful and foolishly artificial way to approach the whole thing.

I do wish you the best of luck though. Enjoy playing in whichever way makes you truly content and joyful, really.
It's just your musical outlook that's a bit silly.

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Originally Posted by Sebs
Is there a reason you don't want to play beginner pieces? It's great to have aspirations and goals but I'm wondering why you are trying to jump right into very advanced works by Chopin, Rach, Bach, etc. Have you tried anything from Anna Magdalena notebook? Might be a good idea to try some beginner pieces and see how it goes. You will find that taking a piece from start to end and having it polished takes far longer and more work than you imagine.

We would all love to speed it up if we could but it just takes patience and perseverance. I was in similar situation not too long ago, I was trying to learn a pop arrangment by Francesco Parrino and I got a the first two bars down so fast then 6 weeks later I was only about 20% "learned" of the piece. It took a while to accept that I simply could not play it and it sucked but I learned from members here that best to set aside revisit it later. I'm hoping in a year or two I can play it. I can not tell you how many pieces I started that were too hard but I learned to know when to set it aside. It's hard but sometimes we have to leave our egos at the door.

Also no one listening or seeing you play will ever say 'oh thats an easy piece they're playing' a very simple piece with good rhythm, dynamics, and articulations will sound far better than incorrect notes and rhythms of an advanced piece. Anyone that can play even the most basic pieces are still great pianists and it's such a very small percent that can do that.

Though many many great pointers were given in this thread so far, this to me is the most important thing written so far. It should be pinned on beginners' walls or on their eraser/idea boards or what have you. This is Truth, with a capital 'T'. And also very hopeful when you think about it. It's all about perspective. Thank you Sebs.

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Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by ranjit
In short:
- Raise your wrists higher. Overdo it if you have to, but you must get out of the habit of playing with such a low wrist.
- As long as your pinky is curling up like that, remind yourself that you have terrible technique.

Good luck.
Many great pianists curl their pinky. It's the way the fingers work for some pianists.
I think it's a good rule of thumb, and certainly applicable in the OP's case.

Of course, there are some famous outliers such as Horowitz. However, look at when Horowitz curls his pinky. His hand is still pretty relaxed, and it's typically a reflex caused by the third or fourth finger playing a note. I can't comment on whether this is an innate aspect of physiology or not. Beginners should not take the fact that something worked for one person in a hundred, in a very specific context, to assume that there are "no rules".https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ELwCdgGQLQ
But the curled pinky is not something that works for one person in a hundred in a very specific content as you say. It's quite common among great pianists and not an outlier at all. My guess is at least 25% of them do this.

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Yeah I think it's more of an issue of being able to play without the pinky curling up being a good indicator that he's fixed the technique issue. And even if the pinky is curled, the knuckle joint is seldom curled backwards all the way in an extremely awkward position.

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OP might do well to watch Shirley Kirsten's excellent tutorials and live lessons. Most of the repertoire is from a fairly elementary to early advanced level so within the bounds of the normal mortals amongst us. Watch how 'simple' pieces morph with good technique and understanding of basic harmony and voicing into

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Sorry, wasn't finished then editing time ran out.

OP might do well to watch Shirley Kirsten's excellent tutorials and live lessons. Most of the repertoire is from a fairly elementary to early advanced level, so within the bounds of the normal mortals amongst us. Watch how 'simple' pieces morph with good technique and understanding of basic harmony and voicing from the black dots into beautiful gems.
Here is a tutorial on the Bach C maj prelude for example. Listen to her analysis, watch her supple technique:

https://arioso7.wordpress.com/category/bach-prelude-in-c-from-well-tempered-clavier/.

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OP might do well to watch Shirley Kirsten's excellent tutorials and live lessons. Most of the repertoire is from a fairly elementary to early advanced level, so within the bounds of the normal mortals amongst us. Watch how 'simple' pieces morph with good technique and understanding of basic harmony and voicing from the black dots into beautiful gems.
Here is a tutorial on the Bach C maj prelude for example. Listen to her analysis, watch her supple technique:

https://arioso7.wordpress.com/category/bach-prelude-in-c-from-well-tempered-clavier/.

Good ol' Shirley. I second this suggestion.

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Originally Posted by dorfmouse
Sorry, wasn't finished then editing time ran out.

OP might do well to watch Shirley Kirsten's excellent tutorials and live lessons. Most of the repertoire is from a fairly elementary to early advanced level, so within the bounds of the normal mortals amongst us. Watch how 'simple' pieces morph with good technique and understanding of basic harmony and voicing from the black dots into beautiful gems.
Here is a tutorial on the Bach C maj prelude for example. Listen to her analysis, watch her supple technique:

https://arioso7.wordpress.com/category/bach-prelude-in-c-from-well-tempered-clavier/.

Oh! This is such a nice resource! I didn't know about it. Thanks for sharing!


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Originally Posted by weinstay
Quote
but she most likely has accomplished more than anyone in this thread....

Quote
My goal in piano is to be able to play Rachmaninoff and Scriabin as soon as possible, I don't really care about any other music.....

I just joined recently as well and told myself that I will genuinely be nothing but positive and cordial on here, and have been, but everything about your introductory and subsequent posts, and esp. these quotes, is just gratingly presumptuous and almost jokingly naive. And this is coming from a fellow beginner.

Quote
(but mozart/beethoven kind of bore me, at least their easier stuff does. I love the symphonies and concerti, but it past my level)

I mean, geez.. You seem to be unaware of the fact that almost everything is past your level. I invite you to attempt any of Mozart’s Piano Sonatas and get past 10 bars. these are deceptively difficult pieces, each and every one. Beethoven’s are another level, unless you’re talking about his WoO Sonatas.

Again, as a beginner myself, I get extreme joy from recently learning the Waltz from Grieg’s Lyric Pieces Book 1 and am now attempting (stressing that word) the Norsk Melody. I personally think he’s an underrated composer and those Lyric Pieces are godsends to beginners like you and I. Someone mentioned Anna Magdalena. You should be eating those up and enjoy playing them. That boring WTC Prelude should be a blessing to play. Some people would be happy if they only learned to play that their whole life. I hate to rehash what was already said, but to say you 'can do it in your sleep’ at the level you’re at is just terribly off-putting.

I am in a similar but much less absurd boat. I too am not advanced but somehow have the ability to play to a certain level or improvise certain passages that belies my actual overall prowess and knowledge. If your idea of enjoying the piano and not being ‘bored’ by it is being able to magically play the ossia cadenza from Rach 3, let alone the whole thing, as if it doesn’t take decades to get to the point of just getting the notes down, then I have to say, it’s an awful and foolishly artificial way to approach the whole thing.

I do wish you the best of luck though. Enjoy playing in whichever way makes you truly content and joyful, really.
It's just your musical outlook that's a bit silly.


I don't care if my outlook is silly. I don't deny that my outlook will change in the future though... But, ideally I want to be an interpreter of Rach/Scriabin. Maybe once I get to the level where I can play everything that they have composed, then I will venture into other composers seriously. But, as of now everything I'm playing is just a stepping stone to that point. I don't play Prelude in C because I enjoy it, I play it because to me it's just a stepping stone to get to Rach.


Mozart has a couple piano sonatas that I like, but they drag on (besides 8 IMO, but I haven't listened to all of them, because I don't care too)

The only pieces I really enjoy from Mozart are: Symphony 40,41,44, and 25 (playing piano transcriptions of these would be great), Lacrimosa, Fantasia, Sonata in A minor, and most of the other stuff I've listened to besides that is relatively boring (some of the concerti is nice). I don't think it's bad or anything, just for my taste it doesn't make me inspired or want to play it. When I listen to the other things I posted, those will be fun pieces to play in the future, but I would never put learning them before Rach/Scriabin if I had the chance.

Beethoven I also view similarly, but I think he is MUCH better of a composer than Mozart. If Mozart lived longer, I could see him eclipsing Beethoven for sure, but it's a hypothetical... I don't think my opinion matters much though.

The piano transcriptions of the symphonies are amazing, his late piano sonatas, and concerti are great as well, and I enjoy listening to all of that stuff, but does it strike the same fire that Rach/Scriabin does? Hmm, maybe some of his symphonies or some of his concerti, but, it's still not the same as Rach/Scriabin...


Personally, I get more joy from practicing scales, playing excerpts of rach (prelude 32 no 5, rpc2 intro, rpc3 intro OVER and OVER till I get the dynamics/pedaling everything I like), and then improvising than playing these boring pieces. But, I still try to play them and build up my rep, because I do acknowledge that it is something that I HAVE to do to get to the level I want to. I obviously enjoy being a hedonistic button presser more than trying to learn stuff like Prelude in C, but, I'm not going to sit all day just smashing the keys...

Keep up the good work on the Grieg pieces though, I learned the RH of lyric piece one, right and left of linus and lucy (first part yesterday), and finally polished my c maj scale to be accurate like 80-90% of the time. I wouldn't mind learning the Grieg Concerto one day either, maybe it will be one of my first big pieces in the future, who knows...


My gods are: Cortot, Horowitz, and Sofronitsky,

Started piano during COVID, hopefully I can play Rachmaninoff, Rubinstein, and Scriabin compositions one day...
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Originally Posted by pablobear
....My goal in piano is to be able to play Rachmaninoff and Scriabin as soon as possible, I don't really care about any other music.....



Well, when you can actually play anything from start to finish in a manner that you are proud of .... I would be pleased to hear it.

Good Luck


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Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by ranjit
In short:
- Raise your wrists higher. Overdo it if you have to, but you must get out of the habit of playing with such a low wrist.
- As long as your pinky is curling up like that, remind yourself that you have terrible technique.

Good luck.
Many great pianists curl their pinky. It's the way the fingers work for some pianists.
I think it's a good rule of thumb, and certainly applicable in the OP's case.

Of course, there are some famous outliers such as Horowitz. However, look at when Horowitz curls his pinky. His hand is still pretty relaxed, and it's typically a reflex caused by the third or fourth finger playing a note. I can't comment on whether this is an innate aspect of physiology or not. Beginners should not take the fact that something worked for one person in a hundred, in a very specific context, to assume that there are "no rules".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ELwCdgGQLQ

There's a quote about Horowitz, I believe Rachmaninoff said it. I can find citation if you don't believe me that goes along the lines of: "Horowitz does everything that a pianist isn't supposed to do, but makes it work"

I don't think there is super strict rules for piano technique in this regard, because there is different schools of thoughts and it's clearly not like there is an objective best school of piano technique, if there is though I would love to see the data on it.

I feel in everything else that I've played before this, I usually learn in weird bad ways and then just make it work for me. Now, I don't think this is a good excuse to have bad habits early on, and I do try to make my pinky/hands more relaxed, but it may be what works. I type 130-150 wpm, and while I do that my pinky is always curled and it's pretty damn comfortable for me. https://imgur.com/a/WDmngcq <--- Image of how I type (methodology was taking hand off KB mid sentence and seeing like the position it was in, I use a bent pinky for typing... I actually learned typing THE WRONGEST way ever, and I would honestly get yelled at in my typing classes in school for not using proper technique, but I've never met anyone in person who can type faster than me...

So am I an outlier?

I can type 130-150 wpm (while I know there is a difference it still may be similar), using a bent pinky and it doesn't really feel bad at all. I do realize you have to put more pressure on piano keys so this can be problematic, but maybe I can be like Horowitz and just make it work since I have so much muscle memory from typing with this shape...

The wrists thing I agree with though greatly, and will be making that change. Thanks for the advice.


My gods are: Cortot, Horowitz, and Sofronitsky,

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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by pablobear
....My goal in piano is to be able to play Rachmaninoff and Scriabin as soon as possible, I don't really care about any other music.....



Well, when you can actually play anything from start to finish in a manner that you are proud of .... I would be pleased to hear it.

Good Luck


Thank you, I know it will take years, but when it does happen I will finally be even more satisfied about my decision to pick up this hobby.


Originally Posted by dorfmouse
Sorry, wasn't finished then editing time ran out.

OP might do well to watch Shirley Kirsten's excellent tutorials and live lessons. Most of the repertoire is from a fairly elementary to early advanced level, so within the bounds of the normal mortals amongst us. Watch how 'simple' pieces morph with good technique and understanding of basic harmony and voicing from the black dots into beautiful gems.
Here is a tutorial on the Bach C maj prelude for example. Listen to her analysis, watch her supple technique:

https://arioso7.wordpress.com/category/bach-prelude-in-c-from-well-tempered-clavier/.

Also, thanks a lot for this.

I checked out some other posts, and honestly I may try and learn Prelude in C fully. Not right now, but I'm going to come back to the second page and learn how to play it how she does...


Currently, I'm working on Bydlo (not going well, need to learn Gsharp scale, hardest part of it isn't anything technically, it's being able to read key sig fluently), Linus and Lucy (going well, left hand is easy, right hand chord progression is almost there too), and Grieg Lyric piece 1 (right hand only so far going ok).

In addition, I'm practicing scales and trying to be relaxed while I do it, I won't play piano until later tonight probably because I practiced for like 2ish hours, and then played w/ my friend for atleast an hour as well. So, I do have some tension, but I have been stretching/icing/and massaging it. By 8 PM, I anticipate I'll be fine.



Also...

I do not play piano for others, if you guys think I want to play these advanced pieces to impress others, it is wrong. It kind of is nice that my mom enjoys when I play prelude in C, or a full piece, but that's one of the last things I care about.

I know I can please more people by learning more rep, or even poppy/rocky/rap basic stuff that everyone enjoys, but, I plan on doing all that once I actually learn music, and I can just sight-read that stuff. I can care less about playing for others, I just want to do this because I can, and the music of Rach/Scriabin speaks to me more than any other composer. It's like you almost get to know them through their music, I feel like I have a friend almost in them, but when I listen/play bach/mozart/etc. I do not feel that way at all.


Thank you guys all for the advice, I am going to stop looking at this thread for now, I don't have the time to be responding here, I think you guys have set me in a much better direction than I was at before...


IF YOU STILL WISH to help me more, please PM me for the future. I would be happy to talk about anything piano related, I'll browse this forum still, but this thread has so much stuff I want to reply to, but I can't give every comment the attention it deserves.

It is a pain of the ass to keep up with all of these comments, and it takes way more time of my day to respond to this in a thread format (because I just have to keep reading and scrolling, PMs are a lot easier for me to keep up with, and my thoughts will be more coherent).


Now, I must grind my materials science and practice...

Best


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Originally Posted by pablobear
I don't care if my outlook is silly. I don't deny that my outlook will change in the future though... But, ideally I want to be an interpreter of Rach/Scriabin. Maybe once I get to the level where I can play everything that they have composed, then I will venture into other composers seriously. But, as of now everything I'm playing is just a stepping stone to that point. I don't play Prelude in C because I enjoy it, I play it because to me it's just a stepping stone to get to Rach.

Mozart has a couple piano sonatas that I like, but they drag on (besides 8 IMO, but I haven't listened to all of them, because I don't care too)

The only pieces I really enjoy from Mozart are: Symphony 40,41,44, and 25 (playing piano transcriptions of these would be great), Lacrimosa, Fantasia, Sonata in A minor, and most of the other stuff I've listened to besides that is relatively boring (some of the concerti is nice). I don't think it's bad or anything, just for my taste it doesn't make me inspired or want to play it. When I listen to the other things I posted, those will be fun pieces to play in the future, but I would never put learning them before Rach/Scriabin if I had the chance.

Beethoven I also view similarly, but I think he is MUCH better of a composer than Mozart. If Mozart lived longer, I could see him eclipsing Beethoven for sure, but it's a hypothetical... I don't think my opinion matters much though.

The piano transcriptions of the symphonies are amazing, his late piano sonatas, and concerti are great as well, and I enjoy listening to all of that stuff, but does it strike the same fire that Rach/Scriabin does? Hmm, maybe some of his symphonies or some of his concerti, but, it's still not the same as Rach/Scriabin...


Personally, I get more joy from practicing scales, playing excerpts of rach (prelude 32 no 5, rpc2 intro, rpc3 intro OVER and OVER till I get the dynamics/pedaling everything I like), and then improvising than playing these boring pieces. But, I still try to play them and build up my rep, because I do acknowledge that it is something that I HAVE to do to get to the level I want to. I obviously enjoy being a hedonistic button presser more than trying to learn stuff like Prelude in C, but, I'm not going to sit all day just smashing the keys...

Keep up the good work on the Grieg pieces though, I learned the RH of lyric piece one, right and left of linus and lucy (first part yesterday), and finally polished my c maj scale to be accurate like 80-90% of the time. I wouldn't mind learning the Grieg Concerto one day either, maybe it will be one of my first big pieces in the future, who knows...

Right on. Best of luck to you PabloBear.
Rachmaninoff's Prelude 32/5 is such a beautiful piece and my fav of the Preludes.
With your ambition and sticking with it, hopefully you'll be playing that piece sooner than later.

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Originally Posted by weinstay
Quote
OP might do well to watch Shirley Kirsten's excellent tutorials and live lessons. Most of the repertoire is from a fairly elementary to early advanced level, so within the bounds of the normal mortals amongst us. Watch how 'simple' pieces morph with good technique and understanding of basic harmony and voicing from the black dots into beautiful gems.
Here is a tutorial on the Bach C maj prelude for example. Listen to her analysis, watch her supple technique:

https://arioso7.wordpress.com/category/bach-prelude-in-c-from-well-tempered-clavier/.

Good ol' Shirley. I second this suggestion.

I third! She’s brilliant! 😊


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The pieces I'm working on with a teacher are arrangements from a Classical repertoire book for easy piano. Many were composed as orchestral pieces.

[Linked Image]

We worked on "Song of India" by Rimsky-Korsakov. The last 2 pieces were chorales from Bach cantatas "Sleepers Awake" & "Sheep May Safely Grace". We worked on a simplified version of a Chopin Ballad and there are a few opera pieces including a selection from Bizet's Carmen.

Personally I never liked the Bach Prelude in C from the WTC. A lot of students would get into it because the arrangement is simple & repetitive. It's a piece you'd practice for sight-reading and note accuracy like doing Hanon exercises. The last time I heard the Bach Prelude was at a funeral service. The grandson of a friend who was in Suzuki piano played it. It's probably a piece he worked on with the teacher at the time. I didn't find the piece enjoyable to listen to. I wished he had picked a more enjoyable piece. The other piece "Méditation" from Thaïs that was also performed was a much better choice.

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Originally Posted by pablobear
There's a quote about Horowitz, I believe Rachmaninoff said it. I can find citation if you don't believe me that goes along the lines of: "Horowitz does everything that a pianist isn't supposed to do, but makes it work"

I don't think there is super strict rules for piano technique in this regard, because there is different schools of thoughts and it's clearly not like there is an objective best school of piano technique, if there is though I would love to see the data on it.
Once you see all of the different schools of piano technique and try to apply their suggestions, you see that they often boil down to very similar concepts. It's best if you assume that there are uniform "best principles" of piano technique. Reducing strain is very important, and I haven't seen a single concert pianist who plays with a lot of strain. Yes, the technique of some is less ironed out than others, but by and large, I've observed that they tend to use very similar principles, even if they say otherwise.

Originally Posted by pablobear
I feel in everything else that I've played before this, I usually learn in weird bad ways and then just make it work for me. Now, I don't think this is a good excuse to have bad habits early on, and I do try to make my pinky/hands more relaxed, but it may be what works. I type 130-150 wpm, and while I do that my pinky is always curled and it's pretty damn comfortable for me. https://imgur.com/a/WDmngcq <--- Image of how I type (methodology was taking hand off KB mid sentence and seeing like the position it was in, I use a bent pinky for typing... I actually learned typing THE WRONGEST way ever, and I would honestly get yelled at in my typing classes in school for not using proper technique, but I've never met anyone in person who can type faster than me...

So am I an outlier?
You may be an outlier in terms of typing speed, maybe not. But there is nothing in your video to suggest that your typing technique is generalizing to the piano in any way. There are certain ways in which you can be more tense and force some speed or evenness out as a beginner -- while it is not advisable in of itself, I don't see any of that here. No offense, but you are playing at the speed and fluency at which one would expect a beginner to play, but with very tense technique. It's probably best to leave aside what you know about typing and try and start afresh. Playing the piano is a much more complex activity than typing, and it's not clear that raw typing speed (although I do envy yours) will really affect piano playing. You may have somewhat of a head start in terms of finger independence. However, as I said, none of that comes across from the videos you posted.

My suggestion would be to not try and reinvent the wheel.


Originally Posted by pablobear
The wrists thing I agree with though greatly, and will be making that change. Thanks for the advice.
You're welcome.

I don't think you intend poorly and there is nothing wrong with liking Rach and Scriabin, but you do vastly underestimate what is required to play even "easy" pieces well. Probably something to keep in mind.

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Originally Posted by pablobear
I don't care if my outlook is silly. I don't deny that my outlook will change in the future though... But, ideally I want to be an interpreter of Rach/Scriabin. Maybe once I get to the level where I can play everything that they have composed, then I will venture into other composers seriously. But, as of now everything I'm playing is just a stepping stone to that point. I don't play Prelude in C because I enjoy it, I play it because to me it's just a stepping stone to get to Rach.


Mozart has a couple piano sonatas that I like, but they drag on (besides 8 IMO, but I haven't listened to all of them, because I don't care too)
It's clear that you like the "interesting" harmonies of Rach and Scriabin and have some strong music preferences. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. However, keep in mind that the average time it takes a piano student before they can play their first Rach or Scriabin piece (the easiest ones!) is probably around 7-8 years. Suppose you're really talented and put in a lot of concentrated, CORRECT effort. It will still take you at least 2-3 years to be able to play it properly. Don't think that you will be able to just play repertoire like that after a month of grinding, it's not going to happen.

You can pick pieces which aren't by Mozart or Beethoven. However, play at least a few dozen pieces at easier difficulty levels which span a variety of techniques before seriously attempting something by Rach or Scriabin. Build up to it.

At your level, since you seem to be really interested in unusual harmonies by your description, why don't you work through Bartok's Mikrokosmos?

Search for other easier pieces by 20th century composers which you like. Play some Schubert, Brahms, Chopin, or Liszt. You will need to also play pieces which are simpler harmonically in order to be able to get a grasp of harmonic principles -- unfortunately, classical era pieces tend to be best for this -- so you'll need to play at least some pieces from that era to develop your skills.

Get yourself a good teacher. I don't always say this, being a strong proponent of self-teaching myself, but it's quite apparent here that you are blind to your own flaws. You are also consistently failing to realize that the fact that "there are multiple conflicting viewpoints on something" does not equate to "there is no right or wrong way to do it, and it's open to interpretation".

Also, you have hand pain. You've very nearly injured yourself in the past. You're still in your early 20s so your hands recover quickly. It won't hurt you immediately, but bad habits and poor form can really cripple you with injury down the road. And it ain't pretty. Why would you bring that upon yourself? And playing for long periods of time with the kind of tense technique you have right now makes that scenario very likely.

Preferably get a new teacher and tell them that you want to focus heavily on technique. It's important to mention this to a teacher because piano teachers have a tendency to not take adult students seriously and tell them what they want to hear. That isn't good -- you want brutal honesty from your teacher, and it's a good idea to tell them that upfront.

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Pablo wrote yesterday afternoon that will no longer be reading this thread, but he can be sent a PM.
Following his own directions seems like a good idea.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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2-3 years to even touch Bach? Ahh! I'd have to rethink my strategy. Chang's book says we can start building easy repertoires in couple months time, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by 24000rpm
2-3 years to even touch Bach? Ahh! I'd have to rethink my strategy. Chang's book says we can start building easy repertoires in couple months time, doesn't it?
I think that's excessive, but it depends on your level. You can definitely attempt the prelude in C major in 6 months, and an invention in a year imo. It's great for finger control.

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