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Although prices paid data points on the N3X are few and far in between, you can probably look at the prices paid data points on the N3 as a ratio of its MSRP, then extrapolate it to that of the N3X to give you a good guideline on what you should be offering on the N3X, before factoring in the pandemic and current high demand vs low supply, etc.

You can do the same with the N1X, N2, N1, N1UX, etc to give you the ratios between prices paid over MSRP as well, to expand your reference data points further.

Last edited by Volusiano; 02/01/21 08:56 PM.
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Give this economy about six months. I bet things will get much cheaper across the board if they aren't essential. Either that or all the funny money they are printing will really start to ramp up inflation and things get much more expensive. I'm just glad I have a nice acoustic at the moment. I can still practice when no one is around which is usually at least an hour a day.

I just sold a CA48 because I was not at all pleased with how it sounded. I blame this on owning a Kawai RX-5. If I didn't have the immediate comparison I likely would have felt much better about it. But at this point, I think I'm saving my pennies to pay cash in a year or two for the latest Novus or AvantGrand!


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Ok guys so seeing that my local dealer was back ordered for Yamaha Hybrid piano’s and I didn’t want to wait months to get an N3X. I was able to acquire one but I had to drive out of state all the way to southern California. These dealers just don’t like negotiating over the phone do they? I visited two dealerships. First dealer didn’t want to sell the N3X to me. Korean dealer. I could barely understand the manager. I don’t know if they just like selling to Koreans only or what because they seemed completely uninterested in negotiating anything. In fact I would say I felt the dealer didn’t want to sell anything to me for some odd reason. N3X was listed around $16,600. Manager said boss who apparently has moods would need to be talked to for a better deal. I walked out planing on going to another dealer about an hour away but before I did I called manager again to see if I could force them to sell me the piano:(. I told them my price and after a call back I was given a quote of $14,000 which included taxes. I live in Las Vegas so no idea why they were charging me taxes if they were going to ship the piano across the state. Anyway I thought the deal was decent regardless. The shipping though apparently was going to be around $300+ which was ok with me. But because I didn’t like how I was treated when I was there with the manager being all over the place and having a feeling like they were kicking me out, I decided to call the other dealer I was planing on going to about an hour away and I told him right off the bat that someone else had offered me $14K including taxes for the N3X. He said come in and talk to him and I would not leave disappointed. So I go there literally within a few minutes I easily walk out with a brand new beautiful N3X for grand total of $13,650 delivery included. Couldn’t be more excited. I take delivery of it soon. Thank you everybody for helping out.

Last edited by Avatuar99; 02/07/21 09:13 AM.
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Good job, Avatuar99!

And regarding taxes, my believe has always been that taxes are not charged for out-of-state purchases, so that “Korean” might’ve been lying.

So, we’ve gone down from a 17K quote to a 13.6K quote, and the moral of the story is:

Be careful what you pay for.

A 22K MSRP should be illegal because it gives dealers the opportunity to cease on unknowing customers.

(I suppose there is more than one moral to the story, but still.......).




P.S.

I feel bad for the guy selling his used N3X for 15K because I have a feeling he was one of those who paid very close to the MSRP and left the dealer thinking himself the great negotiator; but don’t get me wrong, I, too, was once suckered into the same scam; hence, my incessant skepticism about everything!

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Congratulations, Avatuar99!

Is the Korean dealer in LA by any chance Hanmi Piano? My daughter bought an N3 from them about 6 years ago for $11.9K with taxes and delivery included (she's local in LA). So if you were able to get an N3X in LA in 2021 for $13.6K delivered to Las Vegas and beat Hanmi's quote of $14K before delivery, I'd say that's a very good deal indeed! Just curious if the final dealer included taxes as part your invoice of $13,650 or not? I agree with Pete14 that there should be no taxes if the buyer and the delivery is for out-of-state.

I'm surprised to hear that delivery from LA to Vegas was going to be only around $300+. Would have pegged it to be at least $500+, but maybe they have good shipping sources. I wonder if you're getting a white glove delivery that includes complete in home setup or simply just curb side delivery and you have to do your own unboxing and setup? Did they say they're going to check it out at the store before they ship it out to you?

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Originally Posted by Avatuar99
Ok guys so seeing that my local dealer was back ordered for Yamaha Hybrid piano’s and I didn’t want to wait months to get an N3X. I was able to acquire one but I had to drive out of state all the way to southern California. These dealers just don’t like negotiating over the phone do they? I visited two dealerships. First dealer didn’t want to sell the N3X to me. Korean dealer. I could barely understand the manager. I don’t know if they just like selling to Koreans only or what because they seemed completely uninterested in negotiating anything. In fact I would say I felt the dealer didn’t want to sell anything to me for some odd reason. N3X was listed around $16,600. Manager said boss who apparently has moods would need to be talked to for a better deal. I walked out planing on going to another dealer about an hour away but before I did I called manager again to see if I could force them to sell me the piano:(. I told them my price and after a call back I was given a quote of $14,000 which included taxes. I live in Las Vegas so no idea why they were charging me taxes if they were going to ship the piano across the state. Anyway I thought the deal was decent regardless. The shipping though apparently was going to be around $300+ which was ok with me. But because I didn’t like how I was treated when I was there with the manager being all over the place and having a feeling like they were kicking me out, I decided to call the other dealer I was planing on going to about an hour away and I told him right off the bat that someone else had offered me $14K including taxes for the N3X. He said come in and talk to him and I would not leave disappointed. So I go there literally within a few minutes I easily walk out with a brand new beautiful N3X for grand total of $13,650 delivery included. Couldn’t be more excited. I take delivery of it soon. Thank you everybody for helping out.

Avatuar99, I sent you a PM.


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Nice job on the price, it's good to hear not everyone is getting price-gouged during the pandemic short-supply!

Not negotiating over the phone is a common tactic to weed out lookie-loos and competitors canvassing the scene for prices. It's antiquated in the global Amazon world but piano dealers are likely old school...

As to selling long-distance, there are a couple of reasons why dealers get to avoid it. First is complications with exclusive distributor contracts (the Alamo issue). Second, I've heard from my local piano shop that it's sometimes not worth the hassle--they have to arrange for non-standard movers (they may work with a local team) or schedule around normal delivery dates, if something goes wrong they have to arrange for return shipping, they may need to find local technicians or tuners for the customer, etc. All of these normally costs of business are trivial locally, but more of a headache long-distance.

The shop I went to is a large one and one of the relatively free that cover the marques' premium tiers of pianos so they frequently deal with long distance customers, but they told me they're more than happy to refer people to a more local shop if one exists.


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This is true ...
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Not negotiating over the phone is a common tactic to weed out lookie-loos and competitors canvassing the scene for prices.
But I don't think it's antiquated. It serves those purposes today as well as it ever did.
Also, it was said here years ago that Yamaha and Kawai forbade their dealers from quoting prices over the phone. Is/was that true? I cannot say. But if true it's another reason for the stated tactic.

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[quote=Pete14]And regarding taxes, my believe has always been that taxes are not charged for out-of-state purchases, so that “Korean” might’ve been lying./quote]

I’m sure the dealer didn’t want to loose so much profit and that’s why they needed to charge me taxes to compensate but they could of just been honest and charged me $14K with no taxes because yeah technically they are not supposed to. I don’t know... the entire situation was kinda strange there to me and one of the reasons I changed my mind and decided to go with another dealer.

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Originally Posted by Gombessa
As to selling long-distance, there are a couple of reasons why dealers get to avoid it. First is complications with exclusive distributor contracts (the Alamo issue). Second, I've heard from my local piano shop that it's sometimes not worth the hassle--they have to arrange for non-standard movers (they may work with a local team) or schedule around normal delivery dates, if something goes wrong they have to arrange for return shipping, they may need to find local technicians or tuners for the customer, etc. All of these normally costs of business are trivial locally, but more of a headache long-distance.

The shop I went to is a large one and one of the relatively free that cover the marques' premium tiers of pianos so they frequently deal with long distance customers, but they told me they're more than happy to refer people to a more local shop if one exists.

I see so it’s possible once the first dealer I went to knew I was from out of state they were probably trying to avoid selling to me for the reasons you state:(

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Originally Posted by Volusiano
Just curious if the final dealer included taxes as part your invoice of $13,650 or not? I agree with Pete14 that there should be no taxes if the buyer and the delivery is for out-of-state.
No $13,650 out the door including shipping and no taxes.

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Originally Posted by Volusiano
I'm surprised to hear that delivery from LA to Vegas was going to be only around $300+. Would have pegged it to be at least $500+, but maybe they have good shipping sources. I wonder if you're getting a white glove delivery that includes complete in home setup or simply just curb side delivery and you have to do your own unboxing and setup? Did they say they're going to check it out at the store before they ship it out to you?

Yeah I have no idea about shipping cost. I was suspecting the $300 plus quoted was not the actual cost because it seemed kinda cheap. Maybe actual shipping cost was going to be higher. The quote was over phone after I left the store mind you. I actually never got to sit down with dealer and see a final invoice. Things might have changed at the end who knows. Because of the whole unwelcome feeling at the store of the first dealer I decided not to go back and went to a different dealer. Completely different experience at second dealer.

Last edited by Avatuar99; 02/08/21 05:28 AM.
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Not to hijack the thread, but sales tax is a complicated issue; it's not just a matter of where the dealer is located and where the item is being shipped to. Bottom line, if the item winds up in a state that collects sales tax, that tax is owed by someone. If the buyer does not remit the tax, then someone else could be determined to be on the hook for it. Dealers that do not collect and remit sales tax on out-of-state shipments are taking the risk that that "someone else" may wind up being them.

If you get into a pissing match with a state government (or, God help you, the federal government), you are automatically in a disadvantageous situation. You have the money you have, and they have... a lot more than you do. In this case, it's "seller beware!"


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Originally Posted by SeaDrive
Dealers that do not collect and remit sales tax on out-of-state shipments are taking the risk that that "someone else" may wind up being them.

I noticed you’ve made use of the “that-that”; it seems like grammarians are at odds when it comes to the that-that, but personally, I have no problem with it.

That being said, I don’t have the guts to use it myself but applaud those who unapologetically use the controversial that-that!

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Not always so.
Originally Posted by SeaDrive
... if the item winds up in a state that collects sales tax, that tax is owed by someone.
Nearly everything I own crossed state lines when I moved last year. The only taxes that could have been due are those associated with automobile registration. And none were paid because the cars were years old.

For other interstate purchases the sales tax is triggered when the seller in another state has a tax nexus in your state. That applies in most states, but not all.

In the case of a piano sale ... if the seller is a mom-and-pop store with locations only in his state you need pay no taxes if you purchase from and deliver to another state.

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What-what? :-)


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There-there, SeaDrive, no need to get upset over that-that wink

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes, the shortages will affect the selling price. But when it comes to buying I take a different view of things.
I like to start from a position of power. After all, I own the money in my wallet. I own all of it. The dealer wants it more than I want his piano.

Times have changed since you bought your last piano, Mac!
And just how much d'ya want that NIX . . . .?


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Finally got around to reading this thread... congratulations, Avatuar99! A post with your initial impressions and a picture of your piano would really put a nice ribbon on top of this saga! Can't wait to see it.

Still loving mine.


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