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Originally Posted by Burkey
Originally Posted by Doug M.
That would make my day to find out that the guy doing the marketing for Roland is Billy Connolly lol... 🤣
Then it wouldn't have a BMC... It'd have a 'wee BMC' smile

lol, that it would be, along with lots of other colourful language.


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Originally Posted by brennbaer
Originally Posted by Doug M.
If Roland do put that action in a portable slab, it will probably be called V-Piano Mark II, and cost you your common sense and a small mortgage to buy.

Yeah, I guess you are right.

I‘d be ok with some extra weight and size and with cashing out some extra bucks but not “limitless“.
i would be fine with with let’s say about 200-300 extra Euros or Dollars.
But then on the other hand the question would be whether the „Grand Hybrid Action“ is indeed thaaat much better than the PHA-50...

I felt that the action in the LX708 was very similar in feeling to the PHA50, just slightly easier to press the black keys, maybe a tad lighter.
I'd still put the quality of the action somewhere between the RHIII and the Grand Feel 1 actions, with it being closer to the Grand Feel 1.
Indeed, the Casio GP510 action is far superior to the Roland Hybrid Grand action in the LX708, with only the Avant Grand and Novus line being a cut above.

Still, very playable. Lighter than the Yamaha GrandTouch keyboard, but similar in quality. For action, I'd probably still prefer the Kawai & Casio.


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Originally Posted by Pete14
And what’s the big deal with the Grand Hybrid Action?

Let me guess, it’s the pivot, isn’t it?

And yes, it does not escape me how forgiving we are towards Roland’s “hybrid” misclassification, yet we all but destroyed Casio for daring to do the same; double standard much?

Who said we are forgiving? IMHO, Roland does not have a hybrid DP product. All their products are good old DP with folded action. I am not saying they are not good/great - they could/may be. But, I wouldn't classify them as hybrid DPs no matter what their marketing says.

Osho


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Pete14
They know we are obsessed with “longer pivots”, so instead of making significant changes/improvements they simply give us a few more millimeters and call it a day. Of course, we bite right into their trap!

At some point the pivot will be so long that it’ll wrap around the entire piano and come out on the other end, but still they will not truly improve the underlying mechanism.

I'm wondering which digital piano brand will be the first to declare a pivot longer than the longest acoustic pivot in the world. Maybe a betting competition in another thread? I'd say the Williams Allegro will beat the Fazioli (or whatever currently holds the biggest pivot in the world title, no pun intended)

I think it's just a matter of time before we get an infinite pivot length. Where the entire key depresses down equally at all point. Fundamentally, there is no reason this cannot be created. Whether it will feel like a good action to play on is to be determined when one actually builds such an action.

Osho


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Originally Posted by Osho
I think it's just a matter of time before we get an infinite pivot length. Where the entire key depresses down equally at all point. Fundamentally, there is no reason this cannot be created. Whether it will feel like a good action to play on is to be determined when one actually builds such an action.

Osho

Would be far too large and heavy for the average human hand to press laugh . Indeed, one would require infinite force to over-come inertia.
Fortunately, no material in existence would be strong enough to support the weight of an infinitely long key stick.
Also, the Piano required to encapsulate such a key ...Imagine the vibrations: who knows, maybe the whole universe is the result of vibrations in space-time created by a giant piano being played by An infinitely large being with a penchant for Chopin.


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I have an infinite pivot length on my XKey Air 37 with keys that not only resemble but act exactly in the same way as a regular computer keyboard. Unfortunately that works only for playing synths smile

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/12/21 01:53 PM.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I have an infinite pivot length on my XKey Air 37 with keys that not only resemble but act exactly in the same way as a regular computer keyboard. Unfortunately that works only for playing synths smile

Isn't that just a push switch?


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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I have an infinite pivot length on my XKey Air 37 with keys that not only resemble but act exactly in the same way as a regular computer keyboard. Unfortunately that works only for playing synths smile

Isn't that just a push switch?
I don’t know but it has a pretty good velocity response, taking in mind it’s basically multiple “space” keys 🤣 Besides, it’s one of only a few keyboards on the market with polyphonic aftertouch and that works great with my Novation Peak.

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/12/21 02:20 PM.

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Originally Posted by _sem_
For good value, look for FP90 deals wink
I don't recall much rave about the PA engine vs the old SNM around here (regarding the new LX models).
i wouldn't count to much on that.
Here in Germany the FP-90/is already out of stock at many dealers. Due to the pandemic they didn't have much DPs in stock anyway.
So at least here in Germany i don't expect any sellouts with huge price drops.
Also used DPs often aren't an option because the charged prices are usually beyond any reason

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I have an infinite pivot length on my XKey Air 37 with keys that not only resemble but act exactly in the same way as a regular computer keyboard. Unfortunately that works only for playing synths smile

Isn't that just a push switch?
I don’t know but it has a pretty good velocity response, taking in mind it’s basically multiple “space” keys 🤣 Besides, it’s one of only a few keyboards on the market with polyphonic aftertouch and that works great with my

Hm, sound interesting. Have you made any recordings?


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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I have an infinite pivot length on my XKey Air 37 with keys that not only resemble but act exactly in the same way as a regular computer keyboard. Unfortunately that works only for playing synths smile

Isn't that just a push switch?
I don’t know but it has a pretty good velocity response, taking in mind it’s basically multiple “space” keys 🤣 Besides, it’s one of only a few keyboards on the market with polyphonic aftertouch and that works great with my

Hm, sound interesting. Have you made any recordings?
I have no recordings of the polyphonic aftertouch, however I recently posted a recording in another thread where I play Bach with three different synths and the highest voice is played on the XKey - Peak duo but I only play single notes, so basically it’s just “mono” aftertouch... I may record a demo with poly AT someday where I play chords and would variably accent different sounding notes of the chord.

Anyway, here’s that video:


Watch the small inline screen in the top left. The change in timbre/behavior of this lead is driven through different pressure I apply to the key. I programmed the synth patch to act like this, it’s my own patch. BTW the upper synth in the main screen is also a poly AT, the ASM Hydrasynth.

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/12/21 02:46 PM.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I have an infinite pivot length on my XKey Air 37 with keys that not only resemble but act exactly in the same way as a regular computer keyboard. Unfortunately that works only for playing synths smile

Isn't that just a push switch?
I don’t know but it has a pretty good velocity response, taking in mind it’s basically multiple “space” keys 🤣 Besides, it’s one of only a few keyboards on the market with polyphonic aftertouch and that works great with my Novation Peak.

This is interesting. Does it support 0-127 velocity in a way that is reasonably controllable? I am curious if it is possible to weigh these to make them 'piano like'?


Originally Posted by CyberGene
I have no recordings of the polyphonic aftertouch, however I recently posted a recording in another thread where I play Bach with three different synths and the highest voice is played on the XKey - Peak duo but I only play single notes, so basically it’s just “mono” aftertouch... I may record a demo with poly AT someday where I play chords and would variably accent different sounding notes of the chord.

Anyway, here’s that video:

Very nice playing.

Osho


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I have no recordings of the polyphonic aftertouch, however I recently posted a recording in another thread where I play Bach with three different synths and the highest voice is played on the XKey - Peak duo but I only play single notes, so basically it’s just “mono” aftertouch... I may record a demo with poly AT someday where I play chords and would variably accent different sounding notes of the chord.

Anyway, here’s that video:


Watch the small inline screen in the top left. The change in timbre/behavior of this lead is driven through different pressure I apply to the key. I programmed the synth patch to act like this, it’s my own patch. BTW the upper synth in the main screen is also a poly AT, the ASM Hydrasynth.


That's very cool: I initially felt like this could have been a track featured in: A Clockwork Orange...
The synth sounds seem very authentic.


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Anyway, here’s that video:

I somehow missed this when you published it! I already commented on YouTube, but I'd love more of this laugh SOB is one of my all time favorite albums (many hours of listening as a kid ingrained it in my brain.) Without even looking at your description, I instantly heard something SOB like. I loved it, thanks for posting. In all seriousness, I would pay for an album of CyberGene's SOB'esque music.


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BetterMusic (the Aussie retailer making the videos) have a facebook comment saying they're expecting stock mid-late January.

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Originally Posted by safari70
I had the RD-2000 for 3 years, i like the responsiveness and overall characteristics of the SN Pianos, but i always found them a bit “thin” (not sure how to better describe it)...

I could hear noticeable improvement when listening to PA pianos in the new LX models, just wish they released a\ successor to RD-2000 with PA technology!

Using the same external speakers or headphones? And which?
It'd be good if the built-in speakers sound better on the FP-90X.
I guess a RD2000 successor with PA and Zen is underway too.

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Originally Posted by EPW
You will be able to replace it with the MP11SE replacement. Start working out now. No excuses!

Lol, I mean I *could* carry it if I had to, but I am not a fan of the Kawai Grand Feel actions, as I have one in my CA95.

The folded actions from Yamaha and Roland are pretty good, they just need to make them a little longer in the stage pianos. Just 1-2 more cm will make a big difference in feel.

Last edited by trigalg693; 01/13/21 12:48 AM.
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I had a solid play at local store today and think Roland is my current front runner brand. Yamaha isn’t exciting me and kawai stock is like hens teeth. Had a play on a LX708 and that thing is sweet. To my ears the best digital in store. Looking between fp-60x and fp90x atm, fair price hike between the two but also whole different action and upgraded sound. Shop says hopefully some stock appears within next 6 weeks.

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I think the weakness of the sound engine of the FP-90 is most apparent in the upper registers played slowly, it's a bit too plastic a sound rather than the bell-like tone you want to lingeringly listen to. So you hear the demos played fast instead of slow normally to not display that.

The FP-90X still has some of that, how much though I can't say, I haven't listened to enough demos yet since they're not out. I've held off getting a second FP-90 for the living room in the hopes of Roland's next model -- I want the PHA-50 keybed again but a different sound engine if possible. Now it's here, whether it was worth the wait or not we'll see.


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Originally Posted by puremusic
I want the PHA-50 keybed again but a different sound engine if possible.

Roland has recently had two models with unusual tech combinations:
- HP601 has PHA-50 but not the fully modelled sound
- HP702 has the fully modelled sound but the PHA4 Standard key action

The latter you don't want and the first might be nowhere to be found. So, this was a useless snippet of information. 😀

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