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Joined: Aug 2013
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Originally Posted by piano411
Originally Posted by Ed Sutton
Yet another would be to install Phoenix bridge agraffes in the bass and tenor, bypassing concerns about down bearing!
Where do you buy the bridge agraffes?

Good question.
Perhaps here in the US. https://pheonixpianos.wordpress.com

or perhaps here http://hurstwoodfarmpianos.co.uk/newpianopage.php?page=newpianos&id=4


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Originally Posted by Ed Sutton
Have you purchased them before and worked with them? Because, they don't seem to be selling these things for techs to install in other pianos. Maybe something has changed.

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Originally Posted by piano411
Originally Posted by Ed Sutton
Have you purchased them before and worked with them? Because, they don't seem to be selling these things for techs to install in other pianos. Maybe something has changed.
My recollection is that they were available maybe 6 or 7 years back. I think it was a company in Florida. But my recollection is getting old fast.
I saw them on display at NAMM or a PTG convention.
I've not installed them. I did tune one piano with the agraffes and carbon fiber soundboard. I found it a pleasing piano, but would have liked to voice it down a bit. It belonged to a fellow who had a hearing defect, and he was extremely pleased with it.

Last edited by Ed Sutton; 01/07/21 10:33 PM.

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Ed, I followed your link. The company was Atlantic Music Center, and they were the Steingraeber importer at that time. Richard Dain of Hurstwood Farms had invented the agraffe and was a Steingraeber dealer. His association with Steingraeber resulted in his agraffe going onto some of the Steingraeber pianos, which continues to this day. Looking at AMC's website today shows that they are no longer a Steingraeber importer. I suspect the loss of the association with Steingraeber meant the loss of their access to the bridge agraffes.

I suggest that Chris contact James Bacon at Hurstwood Farms/Phoenix pianos. I shared a number of back and forth emails with him regarding their new hammer shanks a year or more ago. He is quite amiable and approachable. I think. Early on, his own Bosendorfer Imperial was fitted with the Dain bridge agraffe, and I believe that he has participated in the development of the agraffe, with Richard Dain as the main driving force. If memory serves me (uh, oh....) Hurstwood Farms was offering the agraffe to rebuilders off their website some time ago.

I have heard one piano with the agraffes and CF board. The carbon fiber board sounded a bit dry, but open and clear with a pleasing Steinegraeber tone. I liked the piano but for one major flaw - pulsing, beating over tones in the treble section that overshadowed all the good things the piano had. I have been told these are longitudinal modes. Ed mentioned their use in the bass and tenor, but not the treble. Apparently, the overtones were enough of a problem that Steingraeber and Phoenix discontinued their use in the treble. They now use bridge pins in a mostly traditional layout, but with more side bearing from the looks of what I have seen in pictures. This overstresses the cap, so they now use a layered carbon fiber cap to accommodate the stresses. Likely, James Bacon could tell you more about that.

Ed, I could not help but chuckle when you mentioned that your customer has a hearing defect and is extremely pleased with the piano. Keep your day job and don't go into advertising. :-)


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Thanks for all the discussion everyone - there were a lot of posts with a lot of good information so I will try to summarize responses.

Based on the feedback and my comfort level, I think I am going to
a) Pull the bridge pins
b) Purchase new of the SAME size (#6, 7, 9)
c) Coat the bridge pins with teflon and allow to dry
d) Put System Three Thin Epoxy LINK via a syringe into the holes and insert the new pins while the epoxy is still wet.

For those that were asking - I am about 70% of the way through the rebuilding/ repair sections of the Igrec book - it is just as good as I had hoped. So much useful information.

Now for the next big problem (I will post a thread on this one but give a sneak preview here):
While my soundboard does have crown (approx 1/16") I rechecked and I was incorrect.... The middle of the long bridge, unfortunately does have negative downbearing (by about 1/16", or 1/2 the width of the aliquot bar).

Stay tuned for the next thread.


Thanks,
A-Piano
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