2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
81 members (AlphaBravoCharlie, Beansparrow, Ampersand, Anglagard44, abwesend, Beemer, accordeur, 18 invisible), 1,430 guests, and 767 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 306
K
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 306
Hi,

After about 3 years of very regular piano playing I realized that the amount of pages probably won't get smaller and I'm at the point where I spend significant time looking for pieces I haven't played for some time.

So... has anyone recently moved from paper to digital? I have a couple of questions:

- isn't it really annoying to only see one page at a time? Do you turn pages with a food pedal?
- although I spend hours on end in front of screens: isn't a screen just less readable than a printed piece of paper?
- is it actually more convenient overall?

Thanks!

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,414
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,414
I'm using a 12.9" ipad pro which I got about a month ago.

Yes, it would be nice to see another page without turning. No, I don't use a pedal or anything to turn the pages. I have to swipe with my finger. It's slightly easier than turning a page. You'll want to hear from someone using a device to simplify page turns but for me I haven't yet wanted to go there.

The screen is fairly easy to read but you're getting an 8.5x11 size sheet of paper. So my henle score is much larger and so still easier to read.

Yes, it's way more convenient because you can have all your music in the one device instead of trying to organize sheets of paper. If you have a book like Henle for your music that may still be better, but if you're printing to sheets of paper from pdf or IMSLP then this is a huge upgrade for that.

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,376
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,376
I also have a 12.9" ipad and it's the perfect size for reading scores. I hate the one page situation, though. The page-turning pedals I have tried just don't work for me, either. I have found that turning the ipad sideways and getting two pages can work, depending on the score, but of course that really undercuts the advantage of having such a big screen for one page.

ForScore will work, via bluetooth, with another ipad for a second page. But that's a massive cost to contemplate.

I want to use the iPad more, but I just find myself opening a book more frequently.

The most frequent use of my iPad is to have the THIRD page visible of whatever book I have opened. That is really sad.

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,657
O
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,657
Originally Posted by Keybender
- isn't it really annoying to only see one page at a time? Do you turn pages with a food pedal?
- although I spend hours on end in front of screens: isn't a screen just less readable than a printed piece of paper?
- is it actually more convenient overall?

I moved from paper to digital a while back - I am using 12.9" ipad Pro with forScore app. It is absolutely great and I will never go back. Regarding your questions,

I don't find that seeing one page is a big deal for me. I use forScore app for it and it has a feature that you can do 'half page turns' - so you see the bottom half of one page and the top half of the next page. That helps with this somewhat.

I have found iPad Pro 12.9" screen just as readable as a paper. Especially, with forScore app's Crop feature. I crop all the digital music to maximize the size of the notes. With that, I find that the size is just as big as the Henle Verlag music (such as this one https://www.henle.de/us/detail/?Title=Walzer_131). I confirmed it with a scale smile.

It is very convenient indeed. Much easier to search for a music. And, much lighter to carry around with nearly unlimited capacity. Also, forScore remembers last 5 scores I was working with - which is very convenient.

A few additional positives I have found with iPad Pro 12.9":

  • I don't mind marking up the music all over - as I can always erase it and go back to the 'pristine' sheet music if I like. On the negative side, this requires Apple pencil purchase, which is an additional expense.
  • Battery life is insanely great. If I charge it every night - I haven't ran out of battery while at the piano.
  • I like that I can instantly search in Youtube for the piece that I am working on. If there is a part that is tricky and I want to hear how it is played by others, this is helpful.
  • Even when I start with paper sheet music, I use Scanner Pro app on iPhone to make PDF of the sheet music and then import it in forScore and use it on the iPad only. Scanner Pro works very well - so I am not limited to only the sheet music I can download online. I can use the paper music I already have.
  • One could use it for metronome and for quick recording to evaluate how the piece is going. Though, I personally tend to use my iPhone for both purposes.


Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + VST + Genelec 8050B monitors.
Current VST favorites (in the order of preference): Pianoteq 7/VSL Synchron Concert D//Garritan CFX/Embertone Walker D Full

[Linked Image]
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 13
P
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
P
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 13
Hi!
I moved from paper to digital about 3 years ago and have never looked back. No more carrying a heavy bag full of scores while traveling, no more looking for scores, everything is neatly organised and accessible on the iPad.
I use an iPad Pro in combination with the Airturn Bluetooth Pedal. Up to now, I have never had a negative experience in rehearsal or concert with it, it has always been very reliable. I also use the ApplePen which makes markings and fingerings very comfortable to put into writing. You can change them without having to look for an eraser or cross anything out, you can adjust markings when playing with different chamber music partners etc.
To me, it has been a very convenient change!
All the best!

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,834
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,834
I also have an iPad pro, Apple pen and bluetooth foot pedal (Butterfly PageFlip IIRC?) and I love it, with a caveat. Namely, if I am learning a new piece, especially if it's longer, more challenging, or both, I tend to start with a paper score and I usually make copies so I can spread the whole thing out on the music desk. That really helps me in the learning process, and being able to see the whole score at once (or at least 5 pages of it, since that's about how much I can spread out on the music desk) helps me in numerous ways, including getting the flow of the piece etc.

If it's an easier piece, sometimes I'll start playing it from the iPad from the very beginning, but I find that it goes faster if I start on paper and then move to the iPad once I have a piece mostly in my fingers.

If I'm planning to perform the piece, or if it's an ensemble piece, I tend to make the switch to iPad earlier, mostly because of the ease of page turns. Once I've learned a piece, playing it from the iPad is fine. I do usually write the page numbers in tho, I tend to write, for example, 1/7, 2/7 ... 7/7 at the bottom and that helps a little to make up for not being able to see all the pages, because at least I know how far along I am, if that makes sense!

And I love having all of my music with me when traveling.

TwoSnowflakes, I'm surprised you didn't find a pedal that worked for you. Have you tried more than one brand? I initially had an AirTurn (PED? I think) but it was never super responsive. When it broke, I bought the Page Flip, and was surprised at how much better it works!

Last edited by ShiroKuro; 12/29/20 06:02 PM.

Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 916
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 916
I use both paper and iPad but definitely use iPad more because I’m constantly marking up sheets and workbooks. I use Forescore and use face gestures for page turn. I also used an airturn pedal to turn pages but I like the face gestures more. You can also have forescore auto page after X amount of beats.

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 216
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 216
You might also consider a Surface Book running Windows 10. The display area on mine is 7.5 x 11.25 (13.5 diagonal). I bought it on eBay while still on warranty for less than 1/2 the cost of an iPad Pro. It will not run Forescore but there are other apps available and most (if not all) are compatible with foot pedals for turning pages.

I use PDF files (either downloaded or scanned) with Music Reader which also expands the image to fill the screen (i.e. minimizes the blank borders). The display is crisp and bright so no problem reading it. I find it comparable to printed scores and superior in low light conditions.

I often mark up a printed score when starting a new piece to add fingering and other notes. There are several free online sites that can edit PDF’s so the final files used on the Book are neat and clean.

One advantage of the Book is that it attaches to a keyboard and becomes a fully-functioning laptop. The battery life with a fully-charged tablet battery is about 3:15 hours. The keyboard also has a battery so when connected to the keyboard (laptop mode) the battery life extends to 8:00 hours or more. I use it almost exclusively for music so it is usually attached to the charger.

On the downside, I am not aware of any apps that use face gestures to turn pages on the Book.

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 216
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 216
Correction - I am using Power Music Essentials on the Surface Book, not Music Reader.

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,745
E
EPW Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,745
Also advantage Imho of music reader is it is cross platform. As good as For score is I hate being locked on one platform. YMMV


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,974
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,974
I am using a 15" Microsoft Surface Book 3. I can view either one page vertical or two pages side-by-side in landscape mode with the display detached from the keyboard. USB page turning footswitches or just swipe the touch screen. I also have the Microsoft Pen to make score annotations.
Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 306
K
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 306
Thanks for sharing your experience, ShiroKuro in particular. What you're describing is exactly what makes me hesitate. I'm still a, maybe advanced, beginner and it takes me weeks of daily practice to get most longer (4 pages) pieces right.

ee375, Beemer: doesn't the Surface Book use a fan for cooling? I'm sure I would find that incredibly annoying. But yes, being a Windows / android user it would seem it's the more complete package.

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,297
P
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,297
I have an iPad Pro, Apple pen and Airturn pedal. I have downloaded scores from IMSLP which are often very old editions and not great quality. The advantage to accessing that library is being able to try out pieces for free. The disadvantages of the iPad are that I found that it’s easier to mark up a printed score with pencil than to use the Apple pen. Also I have to turn off my piano light when using the iPad because of the reflection which can make the keyboard dark, depending on time of day/year.

I prefer using printed scores because I end up making a working copy while I’m learning and I play from the copy. Once I know the piece, I like to have my scores fairly clean. Working this way means that I would not be using the iPad for most of my practice time.

I think my experience might be better if I downloaded Henle or other high quality scores. But since it costs about the same as the printed score I don’t see the advantage.



Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 216
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 216
Quote
ee375, Beemer: doesn't the Surface Book use a fan for cooling? I'm sure I would find that incredibly annoying. But yes, being a Windows / android user it would seem it's the more complete package.
I have an i5 MS Book and there is no fan noise at all. I was totally unaware of Book fans until Keybender mentioned it. I don't see any vents on my case so apparently my version does not have a fan. Totally quiet.

Looking online it appears that some Book versions do not have fans (like mine) and some have fans only in the keyboard. If that is true then using the display only for music would be completely quiet.

Joined: May 2020
Posts: 1,106
J
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 1,106
I recommend going with a 32 inch curved 4K monitor and a touch screen laptop which supports 4K.

You can fit ~2.5 pages on 32, and they're huge looking, no squinting here.

This is on upright, for Grand, you can go even bigger, but it's not really necessary.

Last edited by jeffcat; 12/30/20 05:57 PM.
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 306
K
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 306
Originally Posted by ee375
Quote
ee375, Beemer: doesn't the Surface Book use a fan for cooling? I'm sure I would find that incredibly annoying. But yes, being a Windows / android user it would seem it's the more complete package.
I have an i5 MS Book and there is no fan noise at all. I was totally unaware of Book fans until Keybender mentioned it. I don't see any vents on my case so apparently my version does not have a fan. Totally quiet.

Looking online it appears that some Book versions do not have fans (like mine) and some have fans only in the keyboard. If that is true then using the display only for music would be completely quiet.

Thanks, seems we both knew half the story smile

Originally Posted by jeffcat
I recommend going with a 32 inch curved 4K monitor and a touch screen laptop which supports 4K.

You can fit ~2.5 pages on 32, and they're huge looking, no squinting here.

This is on upright, for Grand, you can go even bigger, but it's not really necessary.

I did actually consider that but it's probably just too ugly

Looks like I will be printing sheets for quite a while - the iPad disadvantage of "not quite the same as paper when learning a piece" very likely outweigh the benefit for me. I will reevaluate once I get so good that a good portion of the pieces I want to hear myself play start falling into the "I can learn that in a day or two" category (whenever that will be smile )

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,376
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,376
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
TwoSnowflakes, I'm surprised you didn't find a pedal that worked for you. Have you tried more than one brand? I initially had an AirTurn (PED? I think) but it was never super responsive. When it broke, I bought the Page Flip, and was surprised at how much better it works!

I started with the Air Turn and then bought a Page Flip Butterfly, and just don't like how they don't very clearly click or move. I need more tactile feedback, more...travel, or a click, or something.

I originally had my own page turning device. I programmed a little Arduino board which I soldered to the 1/4 jack of a standalone digital piano pedal as a sort of simple computer keyboard, with limited keys. Push the pedal down once, page down; twice within a second, page up; three times within a certain number of milliseconds, first page. It then ran on a Mac Mini connected to a thin monitor that sat on my music desk like a wide open book. Music was in pdf format and page up and down/home worked fine while in full screen.

It's not very portable, so it wasn't very useful.

I suppose I could add a bluetooth module to it and then try to see if I can pair it to the ipad. I don't know what input functions ForScore is receiving from the dedicated bluetooth pedals.

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 216
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 216
Quote
I don't know what input functions ForScore is receiving from the dedicated bluetooth pedals.
HID Key Codes:
ArrowRight (0x4f) and ArrowLeft (0x50)
PageUp (0x4b) and PageDown (0x4e)
ArrowUp (0x52) and ArrowDown (0x51) may also work with some apps.

Sometimes different pairs of key codes work with different apps. Try them all.

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,974
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,974
Originally Posted by Keybender
Thanks for sharing your experience, ShiroKuro in particular. What you're describing is exactly what makes me hesitate. I'm still a, maybe advanced, beginner and it takes me weeks of daily practice to get most longer (4 pages) pieces right.

ee375, Beemer: doesn't the Surface Book use a fan for cooling? I'm sure I would find that incredibly annoying. But yes, being a Windows / android user it would seem it's the more complete package.
Yes the Surface Book 3 has a fan in the display. This (quiet) fan does not run unless the alternative graphics processor is selected and graphic intensive programs are in use. It will never run when pdf music files are being displayed.
Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,974
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,974
Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
TwoSnowflakes, I'm surprised you didn't find a pedal that worked for you. Have you tried more than one brand? I initially had an AirTurn (PED? I think) but it was never super responsive. When it broke, I bought the Page Flip, and was surprised at how much better it works!

I started with the Air Turn and then bought a Page Flip Butterfly, and just don't like how they don't very clearly click or move. I need more tactile feedback, more...travel, or a click, or something.

I originally had my own page turning device. I programmed a little Arduino board which I soldered to the 1/4 jack of a standalone digital piano pedal as a sort of simple computer keyboard, with limited keys. Push the pedal down once, page down; twice within a second, page up; three times within a certain number of milliseconds, first page. It then ran on a Mac Mini connected to a thin monitor that sat on my music desk like a wide open book. Music was in pdf format and page up and down/home worked fine while in full screen.

It's not very portable, so it wasn't very useful.

I suppose I could add a bluetooth module to it and then try to see if I can pair it to the ipad. I don't know what input functions ForScore is receiving from the dedicated bluetooth pedals.
If you check the AirTurn website you will see that there is an option for it to use Boss pedals that do click.
Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Starting to learn play piano by scores
by Patrick Hasselbank - 08/04/21 04:47 AM
How to fix Score Errors In Piano Marvel?
by rwang101 - 08/03/21 10:55 PM
In the hunt for first grand piano
by WinstonSmith - 08/03/21 10:44 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics208,365
Posts3,119,043
Members102,317
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5