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When I had the course I copied the .VOB files to the computer as .MPG files and renamed them by lesson number. I wasn’t able to port them to an iPad as it didn’t like .MPG files. The videos were on my daughters laptop and she has since taken it and wiped out the folder so they’re gone from me now. As it turns out, the iPad I had at the time fritzed out too so if I did get them to work they’d be as gone as her laptop.

Sorry, I wish I had better advice but if I was able to get them on the computer without much trouble I’m sure others can too.


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I remember when none of those options existed. Vinyl was all we had.


John F
Pramberger 5'9" small grand
Roland HP 605
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course for popular music
Also venture into Alfred’s Adult All in One, and in Laughlin’s New School of American Music
key-notes.com for classical music
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I had purchased the entire course on DVD 8+ years ago, as well as several other courses. When I asked, they generously added the download link in my account folder so I can access the lessons on laptop, iPad, etc.


John F
Pramberger 5'9" small grand
Roland HP 605
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course for popular music
Also venture into Alfred’s Adult All in One, and in Laughlin’s New School of American Music
key-notes.com for classical music
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Hi Docc!

That's very interesting. I could try that. But how did you prove to them you bought the course 8+ years ago? I bought mine probably longer than that (so let's say they have to dig through some kind of records, I would think impossible for me). It was probably even the time I learned about his courses through snail mail. Omg! Like many others, I had this course. Tried it and stopped. I really appreciate this thread. It made me want to revisit it after all these years. And I am at a little more of a mature mindset now - better capable of having somewhat of the discipline necessary to stay with the course. Let's see how it goes.

Last edited by Lx20; 12/12/20 01:35 PM.
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I sent them a note stating I had bought the course about 8 years ago, and asked if there were a way to get a break on the digital price since I had already paid full price. They set up a account and added the digital version at no added cost to me, and it was done in less than 24 hours. I expect their records must be pretty good. (Sorry about the delay in answering, Lx20; just saw your question.)

I probably started the course at least three or four times and always hit a wall. This thread helped me understand better that it is important to master the material of a lesson before moving on rather than look at a calendar, see that a week is up, and move on. I also got a much better idea of what it means to master the material. Paying attention to Duane’s spaced repetition, I now have a minimum of 24-25 practice sessions on each lesson, then I assess if I can move on. I move tomorrow to Lesson 7, but I can tell that through 6 lessons I am far ahead of where I was on previous iterations. Since I am retired it is easy to get in multiple sessions daily. Lesson 6 was typically three 20 minute sessions. I’m working hard to practice all new techniques on various prior pieces as well as those for the current lesson.

Good luck and Merry Christmas.


John F
Pramberger 5'9" small grand
Roland HP 605
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course for popular music
Also venture into Alfred’s Adult All in One, and in Laughlin’s New School of American Music
key-notes.com for classical music
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Docc,

Thanks for sharing! Yes, like you, I was intent on getting through material in the past. Not sure if I burned out, per se, hmmm .... then I think I decided to pursue other things. So now I'm back at it, and yes, it's true, you have to approach this course more like mastering material than looking at it as a week. Take the ego out of the way. That's the only way to really get what this course has to offer. I have tried countless programs and approaches and really nothing beat the Duanne's 52 week course. And yes, now the way I approach piano is I will play something around. Then when I get tired or bored. Stop. And then return to whatever it is I want to try. Currently, I'm at the daunted Lesson 17. At first, I thought it might be impossible, but slowly making headway.

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Originally Posted by Docc
I also got a much better idea of what it means to master the material. Paying attention to Duane’s spaced repetition, I now have a minimum of 24-25 practice sessions on each lesson, then I assess if I can move on.

I'm not using Duane Shinn, but I agree - around 25-30 practice sessions does the trick, that works really well for me. It gets me past straight repetitions into basic variations/improvisation, by the time you get to practice session 25 you're on the doorstep of fluency, if you haven't already entered. I have a long spreadsheet that tracks each practice item through 30 sessions.

I also find it's useful to save the last 10 repetitions for later down the road. Work ahead on your lessons (whichever method you're using) - and then add back those last 10 repetitions of the previous material, it really helps to make that real-world practical connection between the old and new material.


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Originally Posted by Groove On
Originally Posted by Docc
I also got a much better idea of what it means to master the material. Paying attention to Duane’s spaced repetition, I now have a minimum of 24-25 practice sessions on each lesson, then I assess if I can move on.

I'm not using Duane Shinn, but I agree - around 25-30 practice sessions does the trick, that works really well for me. It gets me past straight repetitions into basic variations/improvisation, by the time you get to practice session 25 you're on the doorstep of fluency, if you haven't already entered. I have a long spreadsheet that tracks each practice item through 30 sessions.

I also find it's useful to save the last 10 repetitions for later down the road. Work ahead on your lessons (whichever method you're using) - and then add back those last 10 repetitions of the previous material, it really helps to make that real-world practical connection between the old and new material.

Last edited by Docc; 12/25/20 06:40 PM. Reason: Couldn’t figure out how to add comment

John F
Pramberger 5'9" small grand
Roland HP 605
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course for popular music
Also venture into Alfred’s Adult All in One, and in Laughlin’s New School of American Music
key-notes.com for classical music
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Groove On, Lx20,

Your thoughts and comments very much appreciated.

Don’t know what I did on previous post attempt, so apologies for a post that was only a prior quote. I don’t know how to reply while including a quote, and that first attempt wasn’t the way.

It sounds as though we arrived at very similar approaches. I play the first 3-4 days of short sessions, which probably covers 9-15 sessions, working mostly on the lesson material. When the main book suggests additional pieces in the supplementary book that are beyond what Duane covered in the lesson, I start to work those pieces in. Lesson 7, for example, only covers No 19 in the supplementary book 1, but at the bottom of one of the main book Lesson 7 pieces it suggests looking at Numbers 20, 21 and 22 in the supplementary book, so I start to look at them even though Duane has not included them until at least the next lesson.

As I move from those early sessions into the middle third, I also start to make one session longer in which I review older material, as well as continuing the new material. The newer material is applied to the older pieces so they are review, but also instructional.

I have a keyboard cover that I designed and my son in law built, and by the time I am closing in on 20 sessions or so, I play exclusively with the cover in place so that I can’t see the keys or my fingers. It gives me a really good gauge of how well I am learning the keyboard, and the ‘thought-free automatic’ movement of fingers the right intervals for play. It helps develop my piano proprioception, that is awareness of where my hands and fingers are in relation to the keys. If I can play those last 5-10 sessions fluently without seeing hands or keys, I figure I am ready to move to the next lesson.

Two days, six sessions, into Lesson 7 and it seems to be going well.


John F
Pramberger 5'9" small grand
Roland HP 605
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course for popular music
Also venture into Alfred’s Adult All in One, and in Laughlin’s New School of American Music
key-notes.com for classical music
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Seeing Duane Shinn highly recommended all over PW has peaked my interest. Do you find this to be a good program to also work on in addition to regular lessons? I see it says they are self paced and there are so many options of various courses.

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I used to play around with the piano while my sister took lessons. When I had enough money, I took a plunge with this 52 week course. Maybe I went almost through half. Then I decided to take live lessons. It helped since I didn’t have to start from scratch. I stopped once I had a live teacher since the lesson content was all I could handle with things like school, work, social. That was many, many, many years ago. This course would be a good supplement to live lessons if you have the time and if you’re interested in maybe how to arrange a song from something like lead sheets in the future. If you do that approach, look at the tips here. I would work on live lesson focus and then just absorb and try to apply the DS content and take your time with it.

Last edited by Lx20; 12/26/20 02:52 PM.
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Originally Posted by Sebs
Seeing Duane Shinn highly recommended all over PW has peaked my interest. Do you find this to be a good program to also work on in addition to regular lessons? I see it says they are self paced and there are so many options of various courses.

The 52 week crash course is designed for complete beginners up to intermediates. But if you're taking private lessons, the content would be redundant and could be confusing since you're getting instruction from two different directions.

Unless you were to suspend in-person lessons, perhaps a supplemental program from Duane Shinn like "Chord Progressions & The Riffs & Runs That Flow Out Of Them! " or "How To Improvise On The Piano" could be beneficial.

But the 52 Week Crash course is pretty comprehensive and intense so it might be better to follow that as your main program and supplement your learning with more up to date songs that you can apply Duane's techniques to.

(my complaint, as well as others, is the songs used for the 52WCC are very dated and musically unfulfilling)


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Originally Posted by Lx20
I used to play around with the piano while my sister took lessons. When I had enough money, I took a plunge with this 52 week course. Maybe I went almost through half. Then I decided to take live lessons. It helped since I didn’t have to start from scratch. I stopped once I had a live teacher since the lesson content was all I could handle with things like school, work, social. That was many, many, many years ago. This course would be a good supplement to live lessons if you have the time and if you’re interested in maybe how to arrange a song from something like lead sheets in the future. If you do that approach, look at the tips here. I would work on live lesson focus and then just absorb and try to apply the DS content and take your time with it.

Originally Posted by WBLynch
Originally Posted by Sebs
Seeing Duane Shinn highly recommended all over PW has peaked my interest. Do you find this to be a good program to also work on in addition to regular lessons? I see it says they are self paced and there are so many options of various courses.

The 52 week crash course is designed for complete beginners up to intermediates. But if you're taking private lessons, the content would be redundant and could be confusing since you're getting instruction from two different directions.

Unless you were to suspend in-person lessons, perhaps a supplemental program from Duane Shinn like "Chord Progressions & The Riffs & Runs That Flow Out Of Them! " or "How To Improvise On The Piano" could be beneficial.

But the 52 Week Crash course is pretty comprehensive and intense so it might be better to follow that as your main program and supplement your learning with more up to date songs that you can apply Duane's techniques to.

(my complaint, as well as others, is the songs used for the 52WCC are very dated and musically unfulfilling)


I was thinking to maybe just grab 1 lesson from it such as "How to Master Rhythm Problems" as this is an area I could extra attention in and only use it as supplemental to my live lessons when time available as I have plenty of things to work on with my teacher.

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Yep


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I have had live lessons, and I have worked through the Shinn 52wcc to various extents on several starts, including the current one. My thoughts:

1. Shinn lessons take every bit as much practice time as live lessons. If you try to do both, you’ll need twice as much practice time.

2. My experience with three different live teachers in the past six years is that there is intense focus on one, maybe two, pieces of music until they are mastered. However, I was not getting instruction in technique that was readily transferrable to other pieces of music of comparable degree of difficulty. I was essentially learning to play a song. In other words, I found the live teaching to be SONG SPECIFIC. Just my experience; others certainly may have different experiences.

3. Although several have commented that the songs in the books used by Shinn are uninspiring, I don’t agree, having grown up when a lot of those songs were still popular (Sirius XM 40s and 50s channels are my most commonly played). I find more current music uninspiring, and unenjoyable. It’s a matter of taste. However, I own at least five different fake, or lead sheet, books of a variety of music genres. What I learn from the Shinn course easily and directly applies to the music in these books; therefore, there is no limit to the variety of music one can work on as supplemental music as one works through the course. I find the Shinn teaching to be TECHNIQUE SPECIFIC, and easily applicable and transferable to a huge library of music, including a lead sheet book of classical music. I was able to play at least a half dozen Christmas songs this week from a fake book, using techniques taught by Shinn, and I did not have to work on each piece for days or weeks to play a competent and recognizable rendition.

Live teaching is and has always been excellent for generations of pianists ever since Cristofori invented the instrument. Shinn’s course is a different approach, equally as effective for the majority of recreational piano player wannabes. Which works better is probably more based on the individual student, his/her goals, her/his learning style, etc, than it is on any superiority of either method.


John F
Pramberger 5'9" small grand
Roland HP 605
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course for popular music
Also venture into Alfred’s Adult All in One, and in Laughlin’s New School of American Music
key-notes.com for classical music
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Originally Posted by Docc
I have had live lessons, and I have worked through the Shinn 52wcc to various extents on several starts, including the current one. My thoughts:

1. Shinn lessons take every bit as much practice time as live lessons. If you try to do both, you’ll need twice as much practice time.

2. My experience with three different live teachers in the past six years is that there is intense focus on one, maybe two, pieces of music until they are mastered. However, I was not getting instruction in technique that was readily transferrable to other pieces of music of comparable degree of difficulty. I was essentially learning to play a song. In other words, I found the live teaching to be SONG SPECIFIC. Just my experience; others certainly may have different experiences.

3. Although several have commented that the songs in the books used by Shinn are uninspiring, I don’t agree, having grown up when a lot of those songs were still popular (Sirius XM 40s and 50s channels are my most commonly played). I find more current music uninspiring, and unenjoyable. It’s a matter of taste. However, I own at least five different fake, or lead sheet, books of a variety of music genres. What I learn from the Shinn course easily and directly applies to the music in these books; therefore, there is no limit to the variety of music one can work on as supplemental music as one works through the course. I find the Shinn teaching to be TECHNIQUE SPECIFIC, and easily applicable and transferable to a huge library of music, including a lead sheet book of classical music. I was able to play at least a half dozen Christmas songs this week from a fake book, using techniques taught by Shinn, and I did not have to work on each piece for days or weeks to play a competent and recognizable rendition.

Live teaching is and has always been excellent for generations of pianists ever since Cristofori invented the instrument. Shinn’s course is a different approach, equally as effective for the majority of recreational piano player wannabes. Which works better is probably more based on the individual student, his/her goals, her/his learning style, etc, than it is on any superiority of either method.

This sounds good. My studies are pop and my goal is to play from lead sheets. It sounds like a lot this Duane Shinn stuff will translate. I don't see the 52 week course, I wonder if it's now the "Pro Playing Secrets" as that one seems like a massive course.

Last edited by Sebs; 12/27/20 12:19 PM.
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Originally Posted by Sebs
This sounds good. My studies are pop and my goal is to play from lead sheets. It sounds like a lot this Duane Shinn stuff will translate. I don't see the 52 week course, I wonder if it's now the "Pro Playing Secrets" as that one seems like a massive course.

Sebs,

Since you have a live teacher and are investing that way, maybe tell your teacher your goals? Rhythm, pop piece? Maybe they can add it to your repertoire? I know you're probably looking to supplement, but you also have access to a live teacher which is wonderful.

If you're still itching to get something else, in regards to Duanne Shinn and the programs you just mentioned - the 52 week course and Pro Playing Secrets are 2 different things. You should definitely do 52 week course before anything like Pro Playing Secrets (which may have some of the techniques from the 52 week course but more in depth studies in various keys). Both programs are in the site. You may just have to hunt for it.

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When I first started learning piano, 31 years ago, I worked my way through a handful of teachers and my experience was like Docc above. Either they were extremely pedantic, spending a week on on one line of a classical piece - and stopping you the instant you made a mistake; or, like one even told me, "you're 37, it's not like you're going to get good or anything".

If I had the Duane Shinn course then (I never had heard of it - pre-internet), I'm sure I wouldn't have quit piano after 3 years, only to come back in my retirement. I could have been playing and mastering piano for all these years. I'm a bit sad about that.

One thing I like about Duane, he's performance minded, he will tell you, "if you make a mistake keep going." Everybody makes mistakes just pretend it didn't happen and no one will remember. If you stop and 'fix it' they will definitely notice.


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Originally Posted by Lx20
Originally Posted by Sebs
This sounds good. My studies are pop and my goal is to play from lead sheets. It sounds like a lot this Duane Shinn stuff will translate. I don't see the 52 week course, I wonder if it's now the "Pro Playing Secrets" as that one seems like a massive course.

Sebs,

Since you have a live teacher and are investing that way, maybe tell your teacher your goals? Rhythm, pop piece? Maybe they can add it to your repertoire? I know you're probably looking to supplement, but you also have access to a live teacher which is wonderful.

If you're still itching to get something else, in regards to Duanne Shinn and the programs you just mentioned - the 52 week course and Pro Playing Secrets are 2 different things. You should definitely do 52 week course before anything like Pro Playing Secrets (which may have some of the techniques from the 52 week course but more in depth studies in various keys). Both programs are in the site. You may just have to hunt for it.

Thanks! My teacher is aware of my goals and we are working on them and I really enjoy it. I'm not trying to replace the teacher I just sometimes like to have a little side project that i choose and my teacher is aware. For example, I had tons of technique I would do and after discussing with him we picked out the technique work that would be benefit my goals. Thanks for letting me know those are 2 different programs. If I dive into some of this content i want to make sure I don't pick a course too advanced.



Originally Posted by WBLynch
When I first started learning piano, 31 years ago, I worked my way through a handful of teachers and my experience was like Docc above. Either they were extremely pedantic, spending a week on on one line of a classical piece - and stopping you the instant you made a mistake; or, like one even told me, "you're 37, it's not like you're going to get good or anything".

If I had the Duane Shinn course then (I never had heard of it - pre-internet), I'm sure I wouldn't have quit piano after 3 years, only to come back in my retirement. I could have been playing and mastering piano for all these years. I'm a bit sad about that.

One thing I like about Duane, he's performance minded, he will tell you, "if you make a mistake keep going." Everybody makes mistakes just pretend it didn't happen and no one will remember. If you stop and 'fix it' they will definitely notice.

What a terrible teacher to say a remark like that. I too have had some teachers with that approach you mention and I toughed it out long enough then got so burnt out on it so made sure to find a teacher that doesn't use the cookie cutter approach. I constantly see stories here like this about Duane Shinn. I never heard of it until PW and I hear it so much is what has me wanting to try it out.

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For an interesting read sometime about what can be accomplished despite starting late in life, read the biographical sketch of Albert Frantz. He started at about age 18 and was told by teachers that he would never be a concert pianist, that he started way too late. He is now an American born concert pianist residing in Vienna, is on the Bösendorfer staff of pianists, and has developed one exceptional website, www.key-notes.com, which I have mentioned before. His story can be an inspiration to all of us who start late. I think you can get his bio through an online search; if not, then his website.

A piano dealer acquaintance of mine has related the story to me of a woman he knows who started playing piano seriously when she was in her 70s, also an age one would not expect to achieve much accomplishment. Now in her 80s, she plays concerts and recitals in his store performance facility, demonstrating instruments for him.

Calvin Peete and Larry Nelson are among professional golfers who didn't pick up a club until they were 20-somethings, yet went on to have above average careers on the PGA Tour, something hardly anyone would endorse as possible.

We all have limitations, but if you want to do it, don't let someone talk you out of it. Run away from the naysayers, and follow your dream.


John F
Pramberger 5'9" small grand
Roland HP 605
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course for popular music
Also venture into Alfred’s Adult All in One, and in Laughlin’s New School of American Music
key-notes.com for classical music
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