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#3058938 12/19/20 08:48 PM
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I've always had a bit of a mission to get the best possible sound from the smallest and lightest possible hardware setup.
Amongst the configurations I play around with, I have a Casio PXS3000 output to a pair of iLoud micromonitors, and use a lot of vst's via my notebook. Sometime I use the internal speakers on the Casio, which are not too bad, but not
in the league of small monitors. Unfortunately the Casio doesn't have USB audio, and I have to use the PX's aux in from the notebook. I have a Studiologic Numa Compact 2X, which does have USB audio, but internal sound is very tinny....and it only has a synth keybed.

As I tend to mostly use the Casio as a controller, which I have to confess, is mainly my use of my MP11SE too, (it's the nice keybed which is the attraction ;), I got to thinking how I would love a manufacturer to produce a weighted keyboard controller only, with built in USB audio routed to micro monitor quality inbuilt speakers, as I just need it to be a controller with the audio interface. It would mean just having to transport one keyboard and one notebook computer, plus leads etc.
I get tired of having to hook up external monitors effectively the same size as the internal ones anyway, but getting much better sound quality.
Now I know it's about economics, and putting in just enough tech to get the job done, but that's why I aim it as a niche, which could be more popular than first impression? Perhaps a keyboard maker could team up with a monitor manufacturer like Genelec or IK.

Just my thoughts on this. Surely I'm not the only one who has wished for this crazy

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You want "micro monitor built-in speakers"? Not me.

Built-in means putting the speakers in an enclosure (the keyboard) that's entirely unsuitable for a speaker system.
And micro means that the sound will be thin.

If you want it to sound good it can't be in-built and it can't be micro.

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It's not how the world works, keyboard manufacturers don't make keyboards for you, they make them for profit. It is naive to assume that they do not know the users needs.

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Don't agree,
I don't mean using the keyboard casing as the speaker cabinet, that would be disastrous. I'm talking isolated enclosures tuned and spec'd within the keyboard. It can technically be done. Look how far some laptop sound systems have come with collaborations of the likes of Harman Kardon, JBL etc. And they are even smaller drivers!

You also miss my point about portability. I'm not talking the sound of 8 inch enclosures, just something the size of small Genelec etc. I have those sizes and they sound great for their portability. It's also more than size of the sound I'm taliing about, it's lack of coloration, transparent sound field etc.

If want something bigger, I just add a small subwoofer, that works well, but it does have to be external, defeating the purpose.

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It can be done, it can be done very well (trust me I'm an engineer wink ), but there is no will and there never was, maybe one day, but I doubt it...

Last edited by ambrozy; 12/19/20 09:46 PM.
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Yes, starting my early career as an engineer, I'm also aware of the technical possibilities, which is why I framed the question in a market niche sense, to see if there was any interest in the product.

I did make mention of the economic mentality in my first post, so I am aware of the realities of this if I'm the only one who wants one!
I have also considered just doing it myself. ie Installing some monitors into the case cavities myself, but I'm of the age where I'm past the toil, and am happy to buy "off the shelf".

I should expect that this sort of question on the forum may be misinterpreted , and naturally many people will tell me it's a stupid idea smile

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Originally Posted by Deltajockey
... how I would love a manufacturer to produce a weighted keyboard controller only, with built in USB audio routed to micro monitor quality inbuilt speakers, as I just need it to be a controller with the audio interface. It would mean just having to transport one keyboard and one notebook computer, plus leads etc. ... Just my thoughts on this. Surely I'm not the only one who has wished for this crazy

The Yamaha P121, P125, P515 might fit your requirements. They all feature USB Audio, built-in speakers and hammer action keys. The P515 has speakers nearest to the Micro Monitor.


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Yes, the P515 is indeed a nice instrument with better specs than many others, however it is larger physically and twice as heavy as what I have now as a portable rig, just that I now have it in several separate pieces. I would also seldom use the onboard sounds.

I've pretty much trawled or tried most iterations of what's out there, which is why I find the PXS3000 to be currently the best compromise for me at the moment.
Sound wise, I already have a lot of studio gear, and have a lot to compare with, so I know what can sound good, and what doesn't, which is why I have narrowed down the combinations of features I think, would give the best on road quality sound. I'm talking great sound for intimate living room performance, with a few friends which is why small and quality sound over power.

I'm even playing around with using small speakers in surround with an external USB interface to gain a "bigger" sound without the size. That though causes the moduled portability issues. But it does produce an amazingly large and spectacular soundfield out of small speakers, having the audience feel like they are listening to a large wall of sound.

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Originally Posted by Deltajockey
I've always had a bit of a mission to get the best possible sound from the smallest and lightest possible hardware setup.
Amongst the configurations I play around with, I have a Casio PXS3000 output to a pair of iLoud micromonitors, and use a lot of vst's via my notebook. Sometime I use the internal speakers on the Casio, which are not too bad, but not
in the league of small monitors. Unfortunately the Casio doesn't have USB audio, and I have to use the PX's aux in from the notebook. I have a Studiologic Numa Compact 2X, which does have USB audio, but internal sound is very tinny....and it only has a synth keybed.

As I tend to mostly use the Casio as a controller, which I have to confess, is mainly my use of my MP11SE too, (it's the nice keybed which is the attraction ;), I got to thinking how I would love a manufacturer to produce a weighted keyboard controller only, with built in USB audio routed to micro monitor quality inbuilt speakers, as I just need it to be a controller with the audio interface. It would mean just having to transport one keyboard and one notebook computer, plus leads etc.
I get tired of having to hook up external monitors effectively the same size as the internal ones anyway, but getting much better sound quality.
Now I know it's about economics, and putting in just enough tech to get the job done, but that's why I aim it as a niche, which could be more popular than first impression? Perhaps a keyboard maker could team up with a monitor manufacturer like Genelec or IK.

Just my thoughts on this. Surely I'm not the only one who has wished for this crazy

A micro monitor will sound garbage and will cost you a ton that's the problem. A tiny cone has poor physical properties to produce a deep enough base.

USB audio interface again: An external USB interface surpasses any built-in interface. Typically, a DP's sound is nowhere near a premium piano VST and since VST is not running on your keyboard, you don't need an internal audio interface either.

Also, it's not a "missing niche market". I rename your thread as a "moot thread".

Last edited by Abdol; 12/19/20 11:11 PM.

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@Abdol: I think your point about micro monitors is valid. But I think it ill advised to call this a "moot thread".

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I remind again that the sound quality I'm talking about is not theoretical, as I'm already talking about the technology in existing monitors I already have. They are not garbage, they are fit for purpose, and sound better than the onboard speakers.
I'm only talking about a product that incorporates this sound into a keyboard product. Obviously anyone who feels they should decide whether this thread is moot and not relevant, this is not the thread for them.

It seems people put words in my mouth that I'm asking for 200W studio monitor sound built into a keyboard!

Evidently, as per the question in my original post, I am the only one in the world who finds value in this, and thank you for your unfriendly put down of my question. It only confirms my past apprehension when thinking about asking a question on this forum.


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Originally Posted by Deltajockey
Yes, the P515 is indeed a nice instrument with better specs than many others, however it is larger physically and twice as heavy as what I have now as a portable rig, just that I now have it in several separate pieces. I would also seldom use the onboard sounds.

I've pretty much trawled or tried most iterations of what's out there, which is why I find the PXS3000 to be currently the best compromise for me at the moment.
Sound wise, I already have a lot of studio gear, and have a lot to compare with, so I know what can sound good, and what doesn't, which is why I have narrowed down the combinations of features I think, would give the best on road quality sound. I'm talking great sound for intimate living room performance, with a few friends which is why small and quality sound over power.

I'm even playing around with using small speakers in surround with an external USB interface to gain a "bigger" sound without the size. That though causes the moduled portability issues. But it does produce an amazingly large and spectacular soundfield out of small speakers, having the audience feel like they are listening to a large wall of sound.

Interesting - I bought/returned Casio PXS3000 (couldn't deal with the keybed), but I though the speakers sounded great! I have the iLoud single unit monitor and it is "OK." I also have Numa Compact 2x; it has all the bells and whistles for connectivity. I think the keybed is great and highly playable for a non-hammer, non-weighted thing. It weighs only 15 pounds. I have a 6 pound, 61 key Nektar Impact that I busk with as a keytar. That and an iPad Mini is as portable as you can get. Vox keyboard amp, 9 pounds. So, 15.5 pounds total. I'd rather have VST than iPad pianos, though. Considering a Surface, Pro, etc. Oh - and I own MP11 and ES110. The latter is as good as it gets for low weight hammer, @ 24.5 pounds.


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Has micro-speakers:

[Linked Image]

Quote
Rugged, lightweight and portable, with carrying handle and battery power
Built-in speakers and headphone output for quiet play

The OPs post is full of impossibilities.:

Quote
I've always had a bit of a mission to get the best possible sound from the smallest and lightest possible hardware setup.

History has shown when something becomes multi-function, it sucks in every single department of its functionality. Like the oldschool fax-printer-copy machines.

The embedded USB interface, the built-in speakers, a compact keybed (PXS3000), you name it! Compactness and lightweight mean a great compromise in the quality and user experience. They are just all bad. Worst of the worst.


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I think bagging the Px3000, small speakers and, worse still, insulting the fax/copier is rather disingenuous.
The OP wasn't looking for your opinion on how [censored] you think his ideas are. Just saying.

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I was about to mention the dreaded fax-copier-printer-breakfast egg fryer, too! I thought the PXS-3000 speakers were excellent, and so did the neighbors and the police....


Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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Originally Posted by Abdol
Has micro-speakers:

[Linked Image]

Quote
Rugged, lightweight and portable, with carrying handle and battery power
Built-in speakers and headphone output for quiet play

The OPs post is full of impossibilities.:

Quote
I've always had a bit of a mission to get the best possible sound from the smallest and lightest possible hardware setup.

History has shown when something becomes multi-function, it sucks in every single department of its functionality. Like the oldschool fax-printer-copy machines.

The embedded USB interface, the built-in speakers, a compact keybed (PXS3000), you name it! Compactness and lightweight mean a great compromise in the quality and user experience. They are just all bad. Worst of the worst.

What are you doing with that Yamaha WX5?


Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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I don't understand. Isn't headphones or iems the exact thing you're looking for ?

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Originally Posted by Deltajockey
Yes, the P515 is indeed a nice instrument with better specs than many others, however it is larger physically and twice as heavy as what I have now as a portable rig.

Better speakers means larger-heavier speakers, there's no good way to get around that. The main reason the P515 is bigger/heavier is that the more powerful speakers need more space.

One solution might be to fasten poles to your keyboard, so you can mount portable monitors. Nord's Piano Monitors work like that.

[Linked Image]


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The big opportunity here is that if you convince just one person on this forum to join with you, you will have doubled the market size for this product!

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if you are engineer/diyer and interested in reproduction of piano sound, look at "distributed mode loudspeaker" they work like soundboards, they are not a point source like standard speaker and in low frequences behaving like dipoles, exactly like real piano.

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