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Joined: Jul 2020
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by zonzi
Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
Originally Posted by LemonColor
Death rates in the US are unaffected in 2020 compared to previous years.

...

Not so, scroll down to the graph: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

I am not going to look at much more you have to say unless you back it up with references.
This table seems a good news:
even the number of infection is increasing exponentially, but the number of death is still falling down.
It is actually similar to Jan 18 which was not a pandemic period, it means it is quite normal now.

For me the death/infection ratio is still going down. It will be milder than an ordinary seasonally flu.


Not sure where you live. Deaths in US are climbing every week: yesterday it was 2,960 for the one day total. — over 11,000 globally. The number of hospitalized patients due to Covid in the US is around 100,000 and many ICUs are at capacity.

The impact of Covid is many times greater than seasonal flu— and it is not resolved.
Our region had several times health system saturations since the beginning of the pandemic.
It has also been re-organized several times in very short time. In catastrophic time, dealing with the situation and having everything out of the plan is the routine. Expect every thing is the same as yesterday, the day before yesterday... is not living a catastrophe. Actually the region knows how to deal with that situation and what should be done in case. The political, the hospital and other entities involved did a great job.
The biggest problem is the resource. We are fortunate that we had a lot of resources, but in case it leaves too much broken consumer/supplier relationships and they are not going to be repaired, to be replaced or unbalanced for a while, everybody is clear that we are going to deal the same situation with much fewer resource for the next time. For this reason, the measures applied so far are just aesthetic, some other measures encourages the people go back to their life before.
Actually, the disease is very close to us, at least a half of the people we know including our relatives resulted positive and I am sure there are many asymptotic. Fortunately nobody has to be hospitalized so far. As the recent statistic says: if you see 300 positive cases and you will see 1 case dead and 10 cases hospitalized. Also due to this fact, it is more and more difficult to convince the people to apply more sever measures.


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I have to ask. In my area, covid is high and hospitals getting jammed.
Are any of you experiencing this. When called for a tuning and you state for people in the home wear masks and get told, "yes that's not a problem". You call day of appt and repeat the mask request and told the same.
Get there and parent has mask on. Get tuning and here come kids that were upstairs going to kitchen without masks numerous times walking about 10 ft from me. I was told no one would come downstairs.
I just thought well here we go. Kids are probably curious who's tuning the piano or hungry or both.
Parent knew they came down without masks. I don't get the mentality.

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Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
Originally Posted by WilliamTruitt
LemonColor, you treat information like shiny baubles of data, when in fact they are nothing more than a distraction, a form of denial of this horror of death and suffering that the entire world will continue to endure until vaccines are widely distributed and begin to bring the numbers down.

I know people who have died from this virus. Your comments show a bloodless indifference.

Forgive me, William, if my springboarding off your comment seems as meant to disparage your passion. That is NOT my intent.

"... this horror of death and suffering that the entire world will continue to endure until vaccines are widely distributed and begin to bring the numbers down."

Myself, I see no difference in a person developing antibodies through infection or through vaccination except for timing and possible transmission to others. I am reminded of how smallpox was inoculated against in colonial times. A bit of pus from an infected person was deliberately applied to a cut of another. It worked by allowing the person to develop an immunity by receiving a small dose of the pathogen. Seems barbaric now, but was the height of technology then.

Surely as more people become infected and recover Herd Resistance will increase and benefit everyone. This homo sapiens species has been pretty successful through the millenniums. We are individually and collectively wise risk takers. (Argue if you want, but first look at the history of Hong Kong.) Right now old folks are staying home and younger folks are socializing. The result is more infections and cases, but proportionally fewer hospitalizations and deaths. Yes, some areas may become overwhelmed, but that is all part of this species' risk taking. Huh! Do any other animals have organized gambling?

Anyhoo, My Faith is not in the medical field nor in the political. It is in the Creator's wisdom in making humans as we are, individually and collectively.

The new vaccines work differently.

What makes you think your creator did not make the medical or political fields?


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Originally Posted by BDB
Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
Originally Posted by WilliamTruitt
LemonColor, you treat information like shiny baubles of data, when in fact they are nothing more than a distraction, a form of denial of this horror of death and suffering that the entire world will continue to endure until vaccines are widely distributed and begin to bring the numbers down.

I know people who have died from this virus. Your comments show a bloodless indifference.

Forgive me, William, if my springboarding off your comment seems as meant to disparage your passion. That is NOT my intent.

"... this horror of death and suffering that the entire world will continue to endure until vaccines are widely distributed and begin to bring the numbers down."

Myself, I see no difference in a person developing antibodies through infection or through vaccination except for timing and possible transmission to others. I am reminded of how smallpox was inoculated against in colonial times. A bit of pus from an infected person was deliberately applied to a cut of another. It worked by allowing the person to develop an immunity by receiving a small dose of the pathogen. Seems barbaric now, but was the height of technology then.

Surely as more people become infected and recover Herd Resistance will increase and benefit everyone. This homo sapiens species has been pretty successful through the millenniums. We are individually and collectively wise risk takers. (Argue if you want, but first look at the history of Hong Kong.) Right now old folks are staying home and younger folks are socializing. The result is more infections and cases, but proportionally fewer hospitalizations and deaths. Yes, some areas may become overwhelmed, but that is all part of this species' risk taking. Huh! Do any other animals have organized gambling?

Anyhoo, My Faith is not in the medical field nor in the political. It is in the Creator's wisdom in making humans as we are, individually and collectively.

The new vaccines work differently.

What makes you think your creator did not make the medical or political fields?

Yes, thanks, I know various vaccines work differently. The point is the end result.

It is in His uncreated Wisdom I have Faith in, not in His creation itself. He did make us, but then we went on to make various field of study. Those we should all have reason to doubt as they are always being updated.


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Originally Posted by joggerjazz
I have to ask. In my area, covid is high and hospitals getting jammed.
Are any of you experiencing this. When called for a tuning and you state for people in the home wear masks and get told, "yes that's not a problem". You call day of appt and repeat the mask request and told the same.
Get there and parent has mask on. Get tuning and here come kids that were upstairs going to kitchen without masks numerous times walking about 10 ft from me. I was told no one would come downstairs.
I just thought well here we go. Kids are probably curious who's tuning the piano or hungry or both.
Parent knew they came down without masks. I don't get the mentality.


Myself, I rarely wear a mask unless actually required to, such as my regular job. But even then I consider it just whistling in the dark. What I do instead is just keep a distance when practical. The latest from WHO is giving a person a momentary hug, even if you both are masked, is now considered close contact.


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Jeff, surely the flaw in your argument is the fact that not everyone who gets infected survives. In a few more days, that will be 300,000 Americans. They won't have contributed to herd immunity because they are dead. it is astounding to me that you seem to find this great a loss of life an acceptable cost of achieving herd immunity, if that even works, which is questionable. No serious health professional takes herd immunity seriously as a solution.

I respect the fact that your response to the Pandemic is based on your faith. That is your choice to make. But it should not be health care policy because it would result in extraordinary suffering and loss of life.


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William the flaw in your logic is not all of the 300000 died because they were infected or even had symptoms! An infection would not need 40 odd PRC cycles to pick up. An infection means the body is overrun with virus. It could be found at 20 cycles or less. Some were infected some were not. You have to look at the raw data to know the difference.

You seem unaware that there are so many doctors, medical professionals and scientist that do believe that herd immunity is a serious solution. They also don't think lock downs are the way to go. You have to understand that it is dangerous for any professionals to speak out these days. Most don't. They risk everything. When they do they get professionally slapped down.

Right now there are over 50,000 verified, approved, and vetted signatures of medical & public health scientists worldwide that have signed the Great Barrington Declaration. They have a completely different professional opinion than what you have stated.

This is all good news.


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Originally Posted by WilliamTruitt
Jeff, surely the flaw in your argument is the fact that not everyone who gets infected survives. In a few more days, that will be 300,000 Americans. They won't have contributed to herd immunity because they are dead. it is astounding to me that you seem to find this great a loss of life an acceptable cost of achieving herd immunity, if that even works, which is questionable. No serious health professional takes herd immunity seriously as a solution.

I respect the fact that your response to the Pandemic is based on your faith. That is your choice to make. But it should not be health care policy because it would result in extraordinary suffering and loss of life.


My compassion is probably different than others. I would gladly risk getting covid and perhaps dying so that my own teen boy and his classmates can have the full life they deserve. I feel that as a society we are sacrificing the quality of life for the youth in order to have more quantity of life for the old. You may consider me a ghoul if you wish. Perhaps I am...

I'll let you do your own reading on herd immunity. I'll continue to use the term herd resistance. I suggest you ignore LemonColor's comments unless he provides references - and then look them over carefully.


Jeff Deutschle
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Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
I suggest you ignore LemonColor's comments unless he provides references - and then look them over carefully.
Great Barrington Declaration
https://gbdeclaration.org

Center for Disease Control
https://www.cdc.gov

Look up the deaths this year and find out how the people died. You can lead a horse to water, but you know the rest. My aunt died of cancer, she had no covid symptoms, and she was labeled a covid death because she tested positive multiple times. Go look that up while you are at it.


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Originally Posted by LemonColor
Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
I suggest you ignore LemonColor's comments unless he provides references - and then look them over carefully.
Great Barrington Declaration
https://gbdeclaration.org

Center for Disease Control
https://www.cdc.gov

Look up the deaths this year and find out how the people died. You can lead a horse to water, but you know the rest. My aunt died of cancer, she had no covid symptoms, and she was labeled a covid death because she tested positive multiple times. Go look that up while you are at it.

Uh, I am supposed to find your aunt's cause of death on the CDC website?

As far as the Great Barrington Declaration, I am familiar with it. If you want to use it to support a point, you need to state your point and maybe quote from the reference.


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Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
I would gladly risk getting covid and perhaps dying so that my own teen boy and his classmates can have the full life they deserve.
Your son's life is fuller with you in it.

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I can understand where discussion of the pandemic and its effects on your tuning business would be somewhat on topic in this forum.

But discussion of religion and politics are specifically forbidden on the Piano world forums. Period.

Invariably, a topic such as this will venture into these realms, as this one has. This means that it is time for it to be closed. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs, whether they be spiritual or political. this is not the place to debate them. Use emails, PM's, or the telephone if you wish. Not the forum.

Topic closed.


Ken

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