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Originally Posted by Floyd G
Here is a link to Canadian statistics. I find the trend of the black dotted line (2020 data) to be encouraging for as far as it goes, which is until the 3rd week of September, as of the date of this posting.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2020017-eng.htm

Nice graphic, Thanks!

When selecting the 45-64 age group I see little excess deaths during the spring covid surge, yet a significant drop in the death rate in Sept. And here is the thing that must be faced. What has been done, why, and what should be done in the future?

Covid mitigation efforts seemed to have saved hundreds, perhaps thousands, of lives in this age group beyond want normally would have died in Sept, yet they were not at great risk of dying from covid even during the spring surge. So should the covid mitigation effort remain in place so that even more lives can be saved in this age group?

Like, should somehow people be forced to stay away from pubs and theaters and sport events and remain at home because it will significantly reduce their death rate - not from covid but from other dangers? Shouldn't the State continue to direct our lives with the same mitigations in order to protect ourselves from ourselves, and not just from covid? Why not? What is the real difference?


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I don't get the split with people not wearing a mask where we're at with this virus at this point.
Seems simple enough, but hard to talk about this without getting political, so won't go there.
I stopped tuning for months. Got back slowly telling people I would only do it with masks on, crack a window and stay away from me. Since I'm in my 60's that seemed to work as I've been feeling ok.
I evaluated a couple pianos for a doctor and he gave me 3 N95 masks so I didn't charge him.
I no longer ask people to crack windows, just wear masks. It feels pretty safe.
But yesterday I called before going to a tuning to confirm and reminded to wear a mask on V/M.
I get to house, no one there. Called and get V/M again. Waited some, ready to leave and she shows up.
Pictures of Jesus all over the outside windows and indoors. About 12 Jesus' looking around me tuning.
But guess what? She's not wearing a mask. I didn't say anything, but was pissed and thought of leaving. She finally put one on asking me if she should wear one.
There was a minor miracle though. The piano was 27 cents flat and held the fine tune well.

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Originally Posted by RonTuner
The CDC in the US has updated the value of mask use for protection of the wearer, so Jeff's info may be more out of date.

More good news? For those of us with colder weather, mask-wearing makes walking outside more comfortable, keeping our faces warm!

Of course there are differences between a properly fitted N95 or level 3 surgical mask and a loose cloth mask in protecting the wearer. Just like any tool in my kit, I've gone through a number of mask designs to find what works best for my face with glasses. Luckily, there are so many available now - if your current design isn't comfortable or leaks out of the sides, chances are there is another design that might work better. Around the ears, over the head, adjustable... there are lots of options!

I use a cloth mask for walking around outside - I live in the city, so there is almost universal mask-wearing as a courtesy to others, though the actual risk while keeping apart from others is almost nothing... For walking into a client's house, the KN95 goes on at the car and stays on until I return to the car.

Ron Koval

Ron, I try to keep an open mind but continue to be skeptical for many reasons. For instance the moving of the goal posts from don't wear a mask, to wear one to protect others, to wear one to protect yourself. The successive reasons given were that they don't work for respiratory viruses because of aerosols, to they do work because covid is transmitted by droplets but only if you are symptomatic, to even if you are non-symptomatic, to covid is transmitted by aerosols after all but wear a mask anyway. Like "Trust us, we know almost exactly what we are doing, again, this time, maybe for sure."

And if you happen to be within 6 feet of someone (for a collective time of 10 minutes in a day!) who later tests positive for covid, even if both of you had masks on, you are supposed to self-quarantine for 2 weeks. Yet the CDC is saying that only 1 out of 8 people with covid are diagnosed with it! So not only through their contact tracing recommendations do they indicate that masks don't work, but they cannot significantly contact trace anyway because they only know of 1 out of 8 people that are infected!

And then the thing about getting covid and not being protected from re-infection even though you have antibodies. OK, if that is true, then what good will the vaccines do when their purpose is to build up antibodies? How can I believe they really know? Yet I understand that when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

So if it looks like a duck quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck. How can I not rant - call BS?

But hey, go ahead and wear the mask, Ron. I can't say it WON'T help, just that I have reason to doubt. Far better I think to just stay away from people. Somehow it got lost in the shuffle that the masks were secondary for when you could not stay away from others.


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Originally Posted by joggerjazz
I don't get the split with people not wearing a mask where we're at with this virus at this point.
Seems simple enough, but hard to talk about this without getting political, so won't go there.
I stopped tuning for months. Got back slowly telling people I would only do it with masks on, crack a window and stay away from me. Since I'm in my 60's that seemed to work as I've been feeling ok.
I evaluated a couple pianos for a doctor and he gave me 3 N95 masks so I didn't charge him.
I no longer ask people to crack windows, just wear masks. It feels pretty safe.
But yesterday I called before going to a tuning to confirm and reminded to wear a mask on V/M.
I get to house, no one there. Called and get V/M again. Waited some, ready to leave and she shows up.
Pictures of Jesus all over the outside windows and indoors. About 12 Jesus' looking around me tuning.
But guess what? She's not wearing a mask. I didn't say anything, but was pissed and thought of leaving. She finally put one on asking me if she should wear one.
There was a minor miracle though. The piano was 27 cents flat and held the fine tune well.

Hmmm, depends on where your Faith is placed and what for. Our Lord and Savior, or masks. Remember, masks are secondary for when you cannot stay away from others. Here's a recent article about that. People wearing masks, but not social distancing. It is still anecdotal like nearly everything else we hear, but makes sense to me: https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ed-in-lead-up-to-fall-surge-survey-finds

Glad the piano held pitch. smile


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Hmmm, depends on where your Faith is placed and what for. Our Lord and Savior, or masks.

Why does it have to be either/or? That's a false dichotomy.....

"The master commended that dishonest steward for acting prudently" Luke 16:8.

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Originally Posted by David Boyce
Quote
Hmmm, depends on where your Faith is placed and what for. Our Lord and Savior, or masks.

Why does it have to be either/or? That's a false dichotomy.....

"The master commended that dishonest steward for acting prudently" Luke 16:8.

Very true! I deliberately left the grammar structure open. Where AND what. Then this OR that. A person can line it all up according to their own Faith. And they may assume most anything about another as I am thinking JJ might have. wink


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The waters are muddied by the wide range of options out there.

Kindof like the question: Can you make this piano concert-ready in an hour or so?
Well, that depends on a whole lot of factors - some in my control, some not. Since not all pianos can be made concert ready in that time frame, can we then assume that tuners really can't accomplish that on any piano?

"Will a mask protect me from Covid? Well, that depends on a whole lot of factors. A decent mask, properly fitted will protect you - otherwise many more workers around active covid patients would also get sick. The trouble is that there is such a huge variance in what constitutes a mask and how it is worn.

We already have "government control" over what we wear - guys, you can't go walking around without pants. Gals, the same goes for you and you also need to wear something on top. Local control, or businesses also can state that guys need to wear a shirt and everyone needs to wear shoes to come in.

It's just a face covering... Think of it as a face bra! How many women over the years have been forced to wear something more constrictive??

Let's see... more good news during a pandemic? I get peace and quiet without interruptions to tune while the family remains at least a room away. More are paying electronically and having me let myself out when done. It is more like the church work that I enjoy - just me and the piano...

Ron Koval

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You don't have to smile if you don't want, and you don't have to smell other people's bad breath.

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The most positive news that I can tell you is that many people around me had COVID-19 and they are all recovered now without any consequence.
I heard also someone who works for a home for the elderly and he also had COVID-19 several months ago. He had a rest only when he had fever, so I am sure some guests have also been infected. Anyway their home have really few dearth because the COVID-19.
I don't mean this one could be ignored but I also want to remember you that have a cold in rare cases can also have catastrophic consequences.
But I hope this one is a good news.


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Originally Posted by joggerjazz
I don't get the split with people not wearing a mask where we're at with this virus at this point.
Seems simple enough, but hard to talk about this without getting political, so won't go there.
I stopped tuning for months. Got back slowly telling people I would only do it with masks on, crack a window and stay away from me. Since I'm in my 60's that seemed to work as I've been feeling ok.
I evaluated a couple pianos for a doctor and he gave me 3 N95 masks so I didn't charge him.
I no longer ask people to crack windows, just wear masks. It feels pretty safe.
But yesterday I called before going to a tuning to confirm and reminded to wear a mask on V/M.
I get to house, no one there. Called and get V/M again. Waited some, ready to leave and she shows up.
Pictures of Jesus all over the outside windows and indoors. About 12 Jesus' looking around me tuning.
But guess what? She's not wearing a mask. I didn't say anything, but was pissed and thought of leaving. She finally put one on asking me if she should wear one.
There was a minor miracle though. The piano was 27 cents flat and held the fine tune well.
There was a women who developed a cough .Her husband said to her "stop coughing" So the lady went to a doctor , and the doctor gave her a laxative. The doctor looked her and said "ok NOW cough ! "

The next time you go to anyone's house and they do not have mask on , just start coughing !
They will quickly find their masks or improvise with a scarf.

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Yes, if one does the math it supports the view that roughly 98% of infected people recover. It's just that the news media keep pounding the numbers of the 2% that don't. I see the 98% as good news.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


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“The governor of Kansas issued an executive order requiring wearing masks in public spaces, effective July 3, 2020, which was subject to county authority to opt out. After July 3, COVID-19 incidence decreased in 24 counties with mask mandates but continued to increase in 81 counties without mask mandates.”
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Peer-reviewed report on CDC website
Thanks to all who wear masks: it protects those around you.


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Originally Posted by Qwerty53
“The governor of Kansas issued an executive order requiring wearing masks in public spaces, effective July 3, 2020, which was subject to county authority to opt out. After July 3, COVID-19 incidence decreased in 24 counties with mask mandates but continued to increase in 81 counties without mask mandates.”
[Linked Image]
Peer-reviewed report on CDC website
Thanks to all who wear masks: it protects those around you.

Thanks, especially for the link so those who want to can read what the study ACTUALLY says. Here is one of the paragraphs (emphasis added):

"As of August 11, 24 (23%) Kansas counties had a mask mandate in place, and 81 did not. Mandated counties accounted for two thirds of the Kansas population (1,960,703 persons; 67.3%)*** and were spread throughout the state, although they tended to cluster together. Six (25%) mandated and 13 (16%) nonmandated counties were metropolitan areas.††† Thirteen (54%) mandated counties and seven (9%) nonmandated counties had implemented at least one other public health mitigation strategy not related to the use of masks (e.g., limits on size of gatherings and occupancy for restaurants). During June 1–7, 2020, the 7-day rolling average of daily COVID-19 incidence among counties that ultimately had a mask mandate was three cases per 100,000, and among counties that did not, was four per 100,000 (Table). By the week of the governor’s executive order requiring masks (July 3–9), COVID-19 incidence had increased 467% to 17 per 100,000 in mandated counties and 50% to six per 100,000 among nonmandated counties. By August 17–23, 2020, the 7-day rolling average COVID-19 incidence had decreased by 6% to 16 cases per 100,000 among mandated counties and increased by 100% to 12 per 100,000 among nonmandated counties."

So, first of all OTHER mitigation strategies were implemented in MOST of the counties that mandated mask wearing. Second, at the end of the time period, THE NON-MANDATED COUNTIES HAD A LOWER INCIDENCE RATE than the mandated counties! but also look at what little it would take to even the % changes out. Just one less per of 50,000 in the mandated counties along with just one more per 50,000 in the non-mandated counties! Third, there is no data about whether masks were actually worn, nor whether other factors such as a more aged population in non-mandated counties, or even if the incidence data was from random testing.

Does this show masking is statistically significant? Not to me it doesn't!

Last edited by UnrightTooner; 12/05/20 08:24 PM.

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Originally Posted by P W Grey
Yes, if one does the math it supports the view that roughly 98% of infected people recover. It's just that the news media keep pounding the numbers of the 2% that don't. I see the 98% as good news.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

Depending on who does the figures, it is more like 99.8% (more pure than Ivory soap!)


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Originally Posted by Qwerty53
“The governor of Kansas issued an executive order requiring wearing masks in public spaces, effective July 3, 2020, which was subject to county authority to opt out. After July 3, COVID-19 incidence decreased in 24 counties with mask mandates but continued to increase in 81 counties without mask mandates.”
[Linked Image]
Peer-reviewed report on CDC website
Thanks to all who wear masks: it protects those around you.

Idiot-reviewed report available on Piano World.


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Originally Posted by BDB
Originally Posted by Qwerty53
“The governor of Kansas issued an executive order requiring wearing masks in public spaces, effective July 3, 2020, which was subject to county authority to opt out. After July 3, COVID-19 incidence decreased in 24 counties with mask mandates but continued to increase in 81 counties without mask mandates.”
[Linked Image]
Peer-reviewed report on CDC website
Thanks to all who wear masks: it protects those around you.

Idiot-reviewed report available on Piano World.


You disappoint me, BDB. I am sure you have something better to contribute. Play the ball, not the man, guy.


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The first personal acquaintance of mine to succumb to Covid-19 died of it last week. He was around my age.

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As of today, over 14.5 million infections in USA and 281,000 deaths. You can argue the value of low percentages of death. What should give perspective to the numbers is the fact that Covid-19 is now the leading cause of death in America - more than cancer, heart disease, etc.

The 1918 Pandemic lasted almost 2 years and killed 650,000 people. It is expected that by the time our new president is inaugurated, there will be 400,000 dead, all within a period of about a year.

The vaccine will not do you any good if you are already dead by the time it becomes available to the general public.

All you non-mask wearers should go to a Trump rally or a White House party while you still can, they are considered super-spreader events of the first order.


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On a positive note, there has been such great advancements in health care that death rates in other categories are down significantly this year. According to the CDC the yearly death rate will be on par with previous years. At least we don't have an extra 300,000 people dying this year in the USA on top of what we normally get. Not sure why people are focused on the covid, we should be celebrating the reduction in heart disease, cancer, and what not. It is a glass half full situation the way I see it.


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