2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
51 members (Bodhis, AlphaBravoCharlie, anotherpianoplayer, Chrisulrich, brdwyguy, bluebilly, Beemer, 11 invisible), 1,189 guests, and 542 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
J
JohnGB7 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
I am not a pianist, but I do play a trumpet so I have some idea about music. However, my young children (5, and 6.5 years old) are, and both play really well for their ages (my daughter has placed in an international competition playing Sonatina by Clementi and Comptine d'une autre etee by Y.Tiersen). We have a lovely Feurich upright piano at home, which we love. However, we will soon be moving, and it will be about a year before we are settled with our acoustic piano in place. So we need to find a somewhat portable digital solution for the next year. We expect to be moving about 4-5 times in the next year as we try out various locations before we decide where we want to settle, so the solution needs to be more portable than a digital upright piano, as it needs to fit in our van. Both kids will likely join a conservatory program in about a years time, and they will have lessons with local teachers as well as online with their current (fantastic) teacher that we've had (in person) for the last year.

Essentially, we've been considering the Yamaha p515, Roland FP-90, Kawai VPC1, Kawai ES920, and Kawai MP11se.

The most important things for us are: 1) How well the action translates to an acoustic piano, 2) Not too complicated to set up so that the kids play more often.


The Yamaha p515 (which we've tried in person) had a really heavy (and noisy) action compared to our Feurich, any my daughter really didn't like it.

The Kawai VPC1 seems ideal if only there were speakers and just one piano sound. I worry that the complexity of turning the computer on, opening the software, and then only getting to play. I think this may be a barrier to the many times a day that my kids will just play on their own.

The Roland FP-90 (which we've tried) has an action weight much closer to the Feurich, but somehow felt like a keyboard more than a piano. Maybe it's just my lack of experience here, so this is still in the running.

We haven't got anywhere reasonably close by at the moment where we can try out any Kawai instruments, so we'll have to order online fairly blind. That said, the ES920 looks good as an all-included solution, but I've heard that the action isn't nearly as good as the VPC1 or the MP11se. The MP11se seems ideal, if not for the myriad distracting buttons and lights and the lack of speakers (but those are less of an issue to sort out).

I haven't discussed price because anything within this range is okay for us, but we'd like to keep the total price under €2500. So if you have any other suggestions that I've missed, I'm completely open to hearing them.

I know it's a lot of money to spend on an instrument for kids, but I'd rather drop silly money on something for their education and drink less beer for a decade. So, what would you actual piano players do if you had €2500 to spend on a digital but portable piano setup for your kids? Roland FP-90, Kawai VPC1, Kawai ES920, Kawai MP11se, or something better?

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,721
D
dmd Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,721
As a parent, I would favor the ES920 because you can purchase a furniture stand for it and it has internal speakers so it appears to be a piano and not a conglomeration of speakers, computers with software, wires, and a stand to put the keybed on.

I have been a Kawai user for a few years now .... ES7, ES8, MP11SE, and I have the ES920 on order.


I have no doubt the key action on the ES920 will be excellent.

Will it be similar to an acoustic piano ?

Maybe not. I really cannot judge that.

But ... it will be an excellent action. That I am sure of.


Others say the VPC1 is close to acoustic.

Some say the MP11SE is also close to an acoustic.

I found the MP11SE key action to be great but perhaps a bit "slow" for trills.

Note: I cannot say for sure about that .... it is just a sense I had.


You may be wondering why I sold the MP11SE.

Weight and lack of internal speakers.


So, anyway .... my vote is for the Kawai ES920.


Don

Kawai MP7SE, Pianoteq, FocusRite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface, Yamaha MG06 Mixer
KRK 5" Studio Monitors or Edifier R1850DB Bookshelf speakers or SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,913
S
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,913
I would involve your piano teacher(s) in the testing and buying decision. Action might be no 1, but when it comes to sound there are other considerations of access to timbre or tonal range, that is just as or more important than the actual piano sounds themselves.

I can't say about the ES920 already suggested, but would not personally recommend a DP I had myself never played.

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 481
Ubu Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 481
Within your budget you can get vpc1 plus a cheap laptop dedicated to the piano. You can place it next to the piano, with a laptop stand. I do so, and it takes me 20 seconds or less when i turn it on. A cheap laptop will run pianoteq with no problems and give you good enough sound through a pair of cheap speakers

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,438
C
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,438
Quote
. . Essentially, we've been considering the Yamaha p515, Roland FP-90, Kawai VPC1, Kawai ES920, and Kawai MP11se.

The VPC1 -- needing a computer, and loudspeakers, and a VST -- is the one I'd strike off the list. Too complicated for a nomad, or a child.

The MP11se also needs speakers, and (at 75 pounds) is at the upper limit of "portable" weight. (It may also have the most acoustic-piano-like action of the bunch.)

The remaining three have their champions and detractors, here. IMHO, none of them would be a mistake. And the MP11se is at least as good (once you've carried it upstairs and attached its speakers).

It would be great if the kids could try them out, and pick a favorite.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,833
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,833
Since your kids know how to play, I'd have them try out the next tier down from the models you've looked at. It is not always the case that people prefer the most expensive action, especially children with smaller hands and fingers. So I'd try the Kawai ES110, Yamaha P125, Roland FP30. You don't mention casio, I'd try those out if they're available in your country, probably a PX-S1000 and 3000. Of those models I've played the ES110 a lot and really like it, I find the P125 a bit heavier and not as much to my liking. I've test drove the FP30 and liked it but did not play it enough to have a really strong opinion. I've never had a chance to play the casios.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 1,106
J
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 1,106
MP11se, Best action, Pop some speakers on there. you're good to go.

ES920 is a ripoff at its price.

I'm not saying mp11se is well priced, but it's not a ripoff.

CA79 is also a good place, but MP11se is more fun down the road, and it doesn't simply overlap with an acoustic piano if you're going to get one installed eventually. CA79 would just be dead weight at that point. While Mp11se expands what you can do musically.

Last edited by jeffcat; 12/02/20 03:39 PM.
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,944
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,944
I think the FP-90 has the best action of any of the pianos being considered.

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 463
_
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
_
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 463
I think you should test the ES920 and the MP11SE (its weight, hehe).
The ES920 action will probably feel lighter than the FP90, and it will look more plasticky.
The ES8 was nicely built, but 5-6kg heavier. The sound was nicer than the FP90 to me, but I prefer the FP90 keys.

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,582
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,582
A lot of voices already chimed in here, but here are my thoughts as a father of a small child (5-7), who went through the same journey.

All the choices you listed are comparable, in action and sound quality. None of these are going to hamper your kids' learning any more than the others.

I do agree that it's better to select something that is sit-down-and-play; if your focus is on the kids, it's a bit of a distraction to deal with turning on a DP (and the MP11 has a momentary switch so you can't just leave it in the "on" position and use a power strip), powered monitors, changing individual volumes, dealing with all the separate cables, etc. Plus, a lot of the stage and external speaker components (like the MP11, VPC-1) are super heavy, need a sturdy stand, and if you're like me, need to be child-proofed and prevented from being tipped over).

IMHO, get something simple, all-in-one and easy to use (the ES920, FP-90 and P-515 are good bets in the portable/stage dept.). When your kids are ready for advanced repertoire, their piano instructors will tell you to get an acoustic anyways, so you likely won't need to upgrade to the "next tier" of DPs.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
Given the age of your kids, having a fluid, lighter action keybed would be my vote. I've got the Kawai ES110, and I can fly on it, it's very expressive and capable of the softest to the lightest. You also tailor the action with the settings: velocity curve for lighter (least amount of pressure required) normal, and heavy. These settings make a considerable difference in how it feels. Esp with the 5 year old, you could make a User voice that has the light touch, and the older one using the normal or heavy touch.

I would strongly dis-recommend getting the under $1000 boards. Many do not have displays and lack other basic features, you have to set parameters by a series of button presses and keyboard notes (it sucks).

Without having tried it, from what I can tell the ES920 would be a fantastic board. It does have a display so you can create User voices that are customized to each of the girls. It does have a quality 40 watt speaker system. It does use the highly regarded action that the ES8 did. It does have an aux in (for bringing in sound from your smartphone), as well as BT audio (you can stream it from your smartphone). And it only weighs 38 pounds, which is unprecedented for a keyboard with excellent action and speakers. It does use a plastic body to cut down on the weight, but is reported to be very sturdy.

You can alter somewhat the action of a board by the velocity curve you set, but if the action is inherently stiff like the P515, the velocity curve can't compensate for that.

Last edited by Randyman; 12/02/20 07:39 PM.

Randy
Kawai ES110/ES920, Casio CT-X5000
Flute / Alto recorder / Melodica / iPad music apps
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 41
L
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 41
I second any opinion that says to get "all-in-one" system, especially for children to practice often. This is a simple psychology trick - make things you want to do the most accessible and easy to start. Want to read more books - put book near your rest place, want to drink more water - keep full bottle on your desk, want to practice more piano - leave ready to play instrument in a close proximity.

Joined: May 2020
Posts: 473
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 473
As someone who played first acoustic piano and then digital I can tell you that **any** choice you make in digital will be **different** than acoustic. How different and in what regard is what you have to debate.

If you are really serious and can make the effort, for closer to acoustic piano experience you can't go wrong with Kawai's Concert Artist series. I know, it's not one of your list, but it should be. It may require the top money you are willing to spend (or perhaps a little more, the exact prices vary by country) and a bit more effort to move, but not a huge amount. I owned many digital pianos (including a Kawai CA) and these are the closer to the acoustic especially for classical playing (I currently have a much heavier and more expensive Yamaha NU1). I moved the Kawai CA myself, with very little help. It (barely) fits in my car, and I am pretty sure you can fit it in a van. It won't be fun, but neither will be moving the plethora of other items, so don't let that be the showstopper.

If money is a showstopper, see if in your place you can find an used one. For your purpose I am sure that's the best choice.

Best of luck!

Joined: May 2020
Posts: 473
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 473
Here you go!

This would be excellent: https://www.thomannmusic.com/kawai_ca_79_b_set.htm

And this would be good too at a much cheaper price and also marginally lighter hence easier to move: https://www.thomannmusic.com/kawai_ca_49_b.htm

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 225
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 225
I have three kids who all started with Suzuki piano when they were young. One still plays flute in college, while another will be a jazz piano major next fall. We had an acoustic Yamaha P22 at home, and the digitals have all been complementary.

What is your time horizon?
I'd suggest any of the GF3 console Kawai digital pianos if you're buying right now. If you can wait, surely a VPC 2 and MP12 will be out in 2021, right James...??

I'd have thought the new Kawais would be out this year, but am guessing that Covid-related production delays have pushed a lot of new instruments off until next year sometime. Hopefully it won't be later than that...

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
J
JohnGB7 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
Thank you everyone for the advice. There is a fair bit of conflicting advice, so even if we don't go with a route that you've suggested, your feedback has been useful.

I think we'll try find a place to try out the Kawai ES920, and will compare that to the Roland FP-90. Although I suspect that Roland will bring out a replacement for the FP-90 in a few months time, so we may go for a rent to buy option that allows us to exchange in a few months if necessary.

Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 16
B
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by JohnGB7
...will compare that to the Roland FP-90. ....
The FP-60 is almost a thousand dollars cheaper (in CAD anyway), but looks similar visually. Might be lighter too. Different action and sound engine though. Why not try both?

Joined: May 2020
Posts: 473
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 473
Originally Posted by JohnGB7
Thank you everyone for the advice. There is a fair bit of conflicting advice, so even if we don't go with a route that you've suggested, your feedback has been useful.

'course that's your life and money, so the choice is only yours. We can only say what we would have done (and in my case what exactly I did for myself and my kids) if/when being in your situation.

One other thing that I forgot to mention about the CA is that they disassemble easy, so if the weight of the whole thing is really the limiting factor (e.g. you think you'll be living on a high floor apartment building with small elevator) you also have that option.

Best of luck with the purchase but especially with the musical journey of your children!!!

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,605
J
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,605
I think your children as talented as they are need as realistic an action and as realistic a digital "sample/model" as you can afford so that during this transition phase their playing affected as little as possible.

There is no perfect solution once you go digital. It's always a compromise between sound quality and playability, and action.

I would consider the VPC-1 and Pianoteq 7 using the VPC-1's onboard Pianoteq velocity curves. I hook my VPC-1 to a mac mini with and SSD drive. Most modern laptops have enough power to run Pianoteq. It is a very CPU light program. Piano models have improved quite a bit with the recent upgrade.

Most VSTs or onboard digital piano samples sound great but played just don't play like the real thing. Some of this is dependent upon the CPU speed and drive speed of your computer. I feel a disconnect with VST and sampled sounds found on onboard digital pianos's sampled sounds that makes playing them unnatural for me.

If your child was just a beginner dabbling in the piano and just learning the fundamentals none of this would matter. But since your child is talented I would pair her with the best compromise which of the ones you mentioned I think was the VPC-1. It may be one more step and a little more investment in equipment ie. a computer and headphones at the very least in addition to the piano, but I think in your case it would be a worthwhile investment. Regardless there is no perfect solution when you go digital. Maybe get one of the best real action digital hybrids, pair it with Pianoteq 7 and figure out the best velocity setting. It won't sound the best, but it won't hinder your child's progression.

Honestly though, best solution is to get her back in front of that acoustic piano as soon as possible.


Working on:
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,605
J
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,605
To add something to the above, another poster recommended the FP90 for its action. I've never tried that digital piano so perhaps pairing that digital piano as a controller and combining it with Pianoteq may be a good option as well. Just have your child try out the pianos and try the VSTS versus Pianoteq which can be downloaded as a free trial and see if they feel the difference.

Last edited by Jethro; 12/04/20 12:59 PM.

Working on:
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Is this a scam?
by roy thompsett - 07/29/21 01:40 AM
What would pair well with a GL30?
by Tim_Noob - 07/28/21 08:26 PM
Yamaha 515-P... sounds bad or it's just me???
by Riccardo92 - 07/28/21 06:23 PM
Rachmaninoff anyone? I'm having so much fun!
by gooddog - 07/28/21 06:21 PM
Yamaha 515-P... sounds bad or it's just me???
by Riccardo92 - 07/28/21 06:10 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics208,268
Posts3,117,234
Members102,261
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5