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Demand? How many people would buy it?
Is that enough to justify the development and marketing of a new product?
I doubt it.

As CyberGene already said, Piano World is a tiny fraction of the world of pianos.
There are 95,000 members here, but only a few hundred are active.
And perhaps half? of those are here in the digital forum.
And only some fraction of those are interested in any sort of VPC-type instrument.
Slim pickings for Kawai.
Originally Posted by floknot
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
A grand action VPC? I'd like one.
Is there a market for this? I doubt it.

It's not about price. It's about demand.

There is demand, otherwise this would not be a recurring topic. The question is to which extent.

At the same price, I'd choose such a controller over a NV5 without a doubt (if I had the bucks wink ) Where I think there could be demand is among professional pianists and demanding amateurs who want uncompromised touch and sound, and are not reluctant to setting up external speakers (or just want to practice through headphones) and using best-in-class piano VIs. Why then pay the extra for internal speakers and on-board sounds if you end up using your piano that way?

Who thought there would be a market for the VPC1? If portability is a criteria then true, such a controller wouldn't fit the bill. Actually whether the VPC1 or the MP11 are really portable is debatable.

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Another reason is that everyone may just be saving their bucks for when the Cybrid will be on the market? :p

Last edited by floknot; 10/09/20 11:59 AM.

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I think CyberGene said that he does not intend to market that piano.
He hasn't said why (or did I miss that?), but it would be hard to turn a profit on it.

Where and how would it be manufactured?
And more importantly, who is able to set up a distribution channel?

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think CyberGene said that he does not intend to market that piano.
He hasn't said why (or did I miss that?), but it would be hard to turn a profit on it.

Where and how would it be manufactured?
And more importantly, who is able to set up a distribution channel?


He actually said it. He has a job and a family and does not want a second job. He also said that he has no entrepreneurial skills nor ambitions. He also thinks that the product is so simple that any other manufacturer could beat him in a blink.

I suggested working with WNG which produces great actions (grand and upright) and is owned by the same person who owns Pianodisc and Mason and Hamlin. The companies are very tied together, it is not just a matter of ownership, in fact you often send an email to one company and someone from the other responds.... They already have a (smaller than Yamaha/Kawai) distribution channel, and all the needed manufacturing expertise, and they are expanding the latter for the new Artist Series acoustic. I think they could do it and tried to nudge CyberGene to contact them, but he refused for the reasons I said before. I think they could make a VPC-like (as big as a NV-10) instrument with the identical action stack of the smaller Artist Series grand and achieve economy of scale in building the same things in volume - plus offering (with same economy of scale) the option to "digitalize" the grand in a much better way than they can now (hammer sensors in Cybrid, vs key sensors in PianoDisc strip). They could even add damper sensors and remove the only small concerns that hammer sensors have.... Still, it's a niche product, but it could compete well against the NV-10 and the N1-2-3, in my opinion, both in price and in performance.

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Yeah, I was aware of that. It was mostly a cheap joke for the fact his music dealer hardly sells any NV10s.

As interesting it is, I've the feeling we (me included) are a bit starting to detract this thread. Del Vento mentioned one which would probably be more suitable.

Last edited by floknot; 10/09/20 12:16 PM.

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A slightly different topic about the NV10 experience.

Do you have any recommendations on headphone selection?
Do you think a Studio headphone such as Beyerdynamics (very flat) or a Hifi headphone such as Sennheiser (tweaked a little bit) would be better for the NV10?
Any idea about the NV10’s headphone amp? It’s output impedance? Output power?

I have narrowed down my choices between the following models:

[Linked Image]
Sennheiser HD660S

[Linked Image]
Beyerdynamics DT 1990 Pro

[Linked Image]
Neumann NDH20

Any other recommendations?

Thanks in advance,

Last edited by Seif Maher; 10/09/20 04:50 PM.

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I don't think the piano enters into consideration.
Choose headphones that sound good to your ears.

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I believe the headphone amp has a lot to do with the selection of a matching headphone. Some headphones have high impedance, which will help them sound more flat on some amps, but they will need more power to drive them.

On another note, the content you are listening to also has a lot to do with the headphone selection. Some content requires more sound stage vs intimacy. Also you typically balance between headphones with good bass, midrange and clarity, or treble. Nothing is just perfect.

So yes, your personal taste is a big factor, however, the content and the electronics it is connected to are other important factors as well.

I am interested to hear about other’s experiences trying different headphones on the NV10 to form an opinion.

I already have 4-5 headphones that I use... I prefer the Shure 846, but it is far from perfect for the NV10. The sound is so in my head, with zero sound stage, in addition to being difficult to put on/remove, and fatiguing.

Last edited by Seif Maher; 10/09/20 07:35 PM.

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New promotional video from Kawai:




Versus Casio:


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Originally Posted by kevin5540
New promotional video from Kawai:




Versus Casio:


I love the Casio brand. The first 2 octave keyboard I got at the age of 7 was Casio, it hooked me with the Piano. 3 years later my mother got me a 5 octave Casio CTK450, and I practiced on it for 2-3 hours daily like forever...

Twenty years later I bought myself the Casio AP470, and for its price, I think it’s a great choice.

However, when I decided to upgrade to a high end Digital Piano or a Hybrid, I did not like the Casio’s GP line with the Bechstein action at all. It is not in the same league with the NV-10.

I think the hybrid label should be reserved to the models that have a complete piano action not just a wooden key.


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Originally Posted by Seif Maher
I am interested to hear about other’s experiences trying different headphones on the NV10 to form an opinion.

I have used Beyerdynamic DT 770 pro - and has been very happy with it.

Note that NV10 has headphone settings so it can be adjusted for different impedance headphones. It has a powerful headphone amp. So, most headphones will do fine. Go with the one that you like.

Osho


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Originally Posted by Osho
Originally Posted by Seif Maher
I am interested to hear about other’s experiences trying different headphones on the NV10 to form an opinion.

I have used Beyerdynamic DT 770 pro - and has been very happy with it.

Note that NV10 has headphone settings so it can be adjusted for different impedance headphones. It has a powerful headphone amp. So, most headphones will do fine. Go with the one that you like.

Osho

Thanks Osho for reminding me about the settings.

1) What is the impedance of your specific DT 770 pro? If you have the 250 ohms and it sounds loud enough, then the headphone amp of the NV10 is good enough.

2) I checked the settings, you can set the type of headphones and some other things. However the impedance is a hardware design specification of the amp. I don’t to change it, there must be different terminals I believe.

Thanks,

Seif


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Originally Posted by Seif Maher
Originally Posted by Osho
Originally Posted by Seif Maher
I am interested to hear about other’s experiences trying different headphones on the NV10 to form an opinion.

I have used Beyerdynamic DT 770 pro - and has been very happy with it.

Note that NV10 has headphone settings so it can be adjusted for different impedance headphones. It has a powerful headphone amp. So, most headphones will do fine. Go with the one that you like.

Osho

Thanks Osho for reminding me about the settings.

1) What is the impedance of your specific DT 770 pro? If you have the 250 ohms and it sounds loud enough, then the headphone amp of the NV10 is good enough.

Mine is 80 ohms. It sounds plenty loud. That said, I remember reading somewhere that headphone amp in NV10 is a high-end headphone amp from Onkyo and can easily drive higher impedance headphones. Kawai James should be able to confirm that.

Osho


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I have an issue with my NV10

Please check this video:


Each note played 1st staccato with dampers down, 2nd legato with dampers down, and 3rd time staccato with dampers up (sustain pedal pressed).

All keys perform normal and as excepted until F#6, then starting from G6, the staccato with dampers down sound as if it is played legato. It keeps resonating although my finger is lifted and the sustain pedal is not pressed.

Any explanation? Is this an issue? Hardware or software?


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There are no dampers at the top of a piano, so they ring. Sustain is relatively short, so it doesn't present a problem. F#6 is probably the last "damper" in the simulation, as most pianos have that break-point around there.


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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
There are no dampers at the top of a piano, so they ring. Sustain is relatively short, so it doesn't present a problem. F#6 is probably the last "damper" in the simulation, as most pianos have that break-point around there.

That's right.
If you are worried about the software, then you can calibrate the damper pedal I think (at least you can with the MP7SE).


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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
There are no dampers at the top of a piano, so they ring. Sustain is relatively short, so it doesn't present a problem. F#6 is probably the last "damper" in the simulation, as most pianos have that break-point around there.

Oh I see... I am sorry, excuse my ignorance 🙈


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Originally Posted by Seif Maher
Oh I see... I am sorry, excuse my ignorance 🙈

Don't beat yourself up, this exact question comes up once or twice a month here. What's REALLY embarrassing is that I took lessons for years as a kid, and never noticed this even once.


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by Seif Maher
Oh I see... I am sorry, excuse my ignorance 🙈

Don't beat yourself up, this exact question comes up once or twice a month here. What's REALLY embarrassing is that I took lessons for years as a kid, and never noticed this even once.

There should be a sticky on this subject at the top of the forum.

Sticky topic: Is the upper register of your digital piano broken?

God Bless,
David


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This is also part of the reason why resonance is more prominent in an acoustic and higher end digitals -- the upper registers are always ringing.

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