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Coal has largely been retired from use in much of the world. So just how dirty can the piano get?

Mine has nothing but some dust. A damp cloth is all it takes.
My wife does the dusting every week or so ... and all she uses is a feather duster. (Feathers made from polyester, mind you!) smile

If the piano needed more cleaning than that then I'd be concerned about my lungs suffering from what's in the air, long before I'd worry about how to clean the crud from the piano.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
If the piano needed more cleaning than that then I'd be concerned about my lungs suffering from what's in the air, long before I'd worry about how to clean the crud from the piano.

It's not a matter of need, but want. The piano doesn't need to be cleaned. It won't break because of dust on it. It's a matter of what we want as individuals. I don't want to see any dust on my piano. The wax helps to mitigate the accumulation of dust and makes it easier for me to get closer to what I want.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Coal has largely been retired from use in much of the world. So just how dirty can the piano get?

Mine has nothing but some dust. A damp cloth is all it takes.
My wife does the dusting every week or so ... and all she uses is a feather duster. (Feathers made from polyester, mind you!) smile

If the piano needed more cleaning than that then I'd be concerned about my lungs suffering from what's in the air, long before I'd worry about how to clean the crud from the piano.

Depends on where you live. Out here in the suburbs, a day or two is enough for a bit of visible dust to accumulate on the piano (and who knows, maybe it's negatively charged and attracts dust?). Over a week or two it clearly forms a layer. Someone in in urban environment or living near a major street may get a lot more dust. And health effects are definitely noted, but there's only so much you can do (we have good HEPA filters, tested closed circulation central air, and we change out air filter every 2 months, and still get dust).

Also, it's not just dust. If you cook frequently and your piano is anywhere near the kitchen, you'll get airborne grease/oil on it over time, and dusting and damp cloth won't be enough in that case, ti'll just stay on your finish.

This last point may be the most significant one: do you have a polished ebony finish? Like owning a black car, you will see dust and fingerprints 10x more than on a typical DP wood finish.


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Yes, PE finish. Dust only. No kitchen grease.
No kids anymore, so no fingerprints.

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I think you may live in a way less dusty (and more healthy) environment than I do smile Or you just don't mind it as much on your piano!


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If I leave the N1X unbrushed for a week, it will become light gray from the thick layer of dust and my daughter would start drawing with fingers on the dust. If I brush it, she will then find it great to leave no place free of entire palm prints... 😁 Besides, it’s next to the kitchen and gets tiny smears from oil or whatever, despite using a powerful aspirator. It’s all hopeless. I dream of a light oak satin finish 😢

Last edited by CyberGene; 09/22/20 04:51 PM.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Super-happy will be more difficult to reach, but I hear that the NV-20 will have a soundboard that’ll help you reach nirvana (even better than super-happiness).
The NV5 already has a soundboard. So it should sound better than the NV10. But does it?

Last edited by kevin5540; 09/22/20 05:32 PM. Reason: grammar edit
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Yes, it does.

Kawai seems to have gotten it a bit backwards here. The more expensive model lacks a soundboard; which for me makes a big difference.

Some here believe that the Kawai modified soundboard is a gimmick; I disagree, and I’m talking about the CA-95. The soundboard on the NV-5 is even better (covers wider frequency range).

The only perceived ‘advantage’ for the NV-10 is the grand piano action.



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These are Pete14’s onions; Kawai does not necessarily agree with Pete! grin

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Curious how they are going to design the successor to NV10 to fit a soundboard.


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Originally Posted by Beowulf
Curious how they are going to design the successor to NV10 to fit a soundboard.

You need surface area for a soundboard. So you've either got to increase the base (bass?) unit of the NV-10 to make it more like a really deep upright, or put it horizontally into a baby grand format, and then you're limited to a soundboard the size of a baby grand's.

So I think the compromises required will prevent Kawai from trying to ensure that the NV-10 is superior in every single way to the NV5. It probably makes more sense to engineer the soundboard into a higher tier grand action hybrid, and let the NV-5 continue to have this advantage over the NV-10.


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
So I think the compromises required will prevent Kawai from trying to ensure that the NV-10 is superior in every single way to the NV5. It probably makes more sense to engineer the soundboard into a higher tier grand action hybrid, and let the NV-5 continue to have this advantage over the NV-10.


Building on what has been said in other threads, I expect/hope Kawai to come up with a grand form factor to compete with the N3X, since they don't yet have a model here: that would allow for a horizontal soundboard.
Now I wonder how big the soundboard needs to be (and thus how deep the hybrid will be) for the sound to be good and powerful enough 🤔.


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Personally, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a baby-grand-sized soundboard. It should be more than enough for the average living room.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Personally, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a baby-grand-sized soundboard. It should be more than enough for the average living room.

That would be the easiest solution. Kawai already has silent option Grands. GL30-ATX for example. Just build it without the strings and add the transducers. But at 5ft. it may still be larger than ideal for a digital grand.


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Originally Posted by ˆTomLCˆ
Originally Posted by Pete14
Personally, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a baby-grand-sized soundboard. It should be more than enough for the average living room.

That would be the easiest solution. Kawai already has silent option Grands. GL30-ATX for example. Just build it without the strings and add the transducers. But at 5ft. it may still be larger than ideal for a digital grand.

I agree, it would definitely fills up a living room, but as you say ˆTomLCˆ it would be quite large for a digital 😅. The N3X is apparently 120cm (3.9 feet) VS 166cm (5.4 feet) for the GL-30, I don't know if Kawai wants to go in that direction for the Novus line. For small flats an N3X may fit and look stylish, but even a GL-10 is a step up in terms of space.

Perhaps for that size they'll rather go for a GL-30 AURES?


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I said "at 5 ft." meaning a GL10 cabinet. I apologize it was unclear. The cost on a digital only sound source could be less than an acoustic with silent system. And a lot less than an Aures. Perhaps it would not be too difficult to shorten the cabinet to 4 ft. since all the typical guts of a grand piano will be missing. I just think to be successful it needs to be a "real" acoustic cabinet. Replicating rather than imitating a grand cabinet.


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That sounds like a good ‘compromise’, TomLC; make the piano about 4 ft. long.

Still, that would allow for a large-enough soundboard. I also don’t oppose to a few discreetly positioned speakers alongside the soundboard if needed.

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Originally Posted by ˆTomLCˆ
I said "at 5 ft." meaning a GL10 cabinet. I apologize it was unclear.
No problem 🙃 and yes I guess a "digital only" should be more affordable.

Originally Posted by Pete14
That sounds like a good ‘compromise’, TomLC; make the piano about 4 ft. long.

Still, that would allow for a large-enough soundboard. I also don’t oppose to a few discreetly positioned speakers alongside the soundboard if needed.

I am sold on that, now I only count on those hopes to fall into Kawai's engineers ears 😇. Combined with the NV-10 action I don't think there would be another piano to upgrade to - besides going real acoustic.


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Are you guys sure that a sound board would be more superior to a subwoofer?

I believe that a high quality stereo amplifier, a pair of high quality bookshelf speakers and a 12"+ subwoofer would outperform any Onkyo sound system with or without a soundboard. I am not sure, but this is what I expect.

I have had the NV10 for 10 days now, and I still believe it is too early to judge.

However, in a nutshell, I would say:
- Action: 9.8/10

- Sounds/samples: 9/10

- Touch screen: 9/10
It can be better, but it is already good enough for me

- Audio Interface: 0/10
Why Kawai? Why didn't you add a $100 audio interface and make us happy? smile
I already connected my audio interface, but it would have been very nice to have much less wires and knobs to worry about.

- Speaker System for playing piano: 7.5/10
It is lacking bass and sound stage.

- Speaker System for playing music: 2/10
I have a Denon 8500 AVR, Paradigm Prestige and Millenia speakers, and SVS SB16 subwoofer. It is considered to be in the upper range of sound systems, but for sure not the highest end. And compared to this system, the NV10 sounds like a low quality toy. Totally missing the sound clarify, sparkly high frequency, and sound stage. No need to speak about low frequency/bass, because it is not there at all.

Even if I compare the NV10's sound to my previous setup:
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Two Paradigm Millenia Speakers
$50 Sony car amplifier smile
Polk DSW 660
The NV10 does not sound half as good as that system "for music".

I am planning to spend more time with the EQ functions and try to get it to sound better, and hopefully I can get better results. At least get more bass, that is totally absent.

I am glad that the only draw back of the NV10 is something I can compensate for by adding external speakers system.

Step one, I will connect a Polk 660 subwoofer and see how it will affect the sound.

Any insights about the quality of the speakers in playing music through Line-In, and how to get better bass, would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,

Last edited by Seif Maher; 09/23/20 12:30 PM.

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I agree nearly 100% with your ratings, Seif.

I also owned the CA98 before upgrading to the NV10. I suffered no loss from a piano player perspective -- in fact, I believe I prefer the NV10 overall here. I suspect that the subwoofer in the pedal base makes up somewhat for the loss of the soundboard, but I also prefer the overall clarity.

I also agree on your take on general music/movie use. The CA98 sounded amazing when I piped general music or movie audio to it. The NV10, not so much. The NV10 is severely lacking here, for whatever reason.

I think the NV10 is particularly attuned to work well for piano sound, particularly from the player perspective. Pianoteq to NV10 works great. The CA98 with soundboard was excellent all around and could be used as an immersive sound system for general music and movie audio from a whole room perspective.

My solution is to not use the NV10 for general music/movie use. It's easy enough to get a cheap surround system, and that's what I ended up doing.

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Originally Posted by navindra
I agree nearly 100% with your ratings, Seif.

I also owned the CA98 before upgrading to the NV10. I suffered no loss from a piano player perspective -- in fact, I believe I prefer the NV10 overall here. I suspect that the subwoofer in the pedal base makes up somewhat for the loss of the soundboard, but I also prefer the overall clarity.

I also agree on your take on general music/movie use. The CA98 sounded amazing when I piped general music or movie audio to it. The NV10, not so much. The NV10 is severely lacking here, for whatever reason.

I think the NV10 is particularly attuned to work well for piano sound, particularly from the player perspective. Pianoteq to NV10 works great. The CA98 with soundboard was excellent all around and could be used as an immersive sound system for general music and movie audio from a whole room perspective.

My solution is to not use the NV10 for general music/movie use. It's easy enough to get a cheap surround system, and that's what I ended up doing.

I agree that it is easy to fix this drawback. But at the same time, part of me thinks that at this price, the NV10 should be closer than that to being perfect.

@Navindra, do you consider the action by itsef worth the upgrade from the CA98? Any other advantages of the NV10 over the CA98?


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