2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
95 members (Amadeus M., anotherscott, ando, accordeur, 36251, Alfred La Fleur, 24 invisible), 1,051 guests, and 456 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
Originally Posted by OE1FEU
Originally Posted by Lushey1
I heard that Renner and Abel are made in China now.Possibly there as well as Europe??
Anyone know?

That is nonsense and I wonder who spreads such nonsense for others to repeat in forums like this one.
I read this and I just ignored it. It always intrigues me why people like to spread all these rumors or repeat them here. The amount of rumors I have heard just in and around Vancouver (often piano dealers ,sometimes even technician's) I never repeat them here ( I hope) but I have spoken to some PW members about them.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 08/05/20 09:17 AM. Reason: spelling
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,051
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,051
FYI, chemical treatment of hammers covers a wide spectrum including adding lacquer or other hardeners. This brightens the sound, and appears to be what was done to blueviewlaguna's hammers. This is something you do want to be careful about doing, as too much hardener can ruin hammers and make them impossible to voice further.

What I had suggested is not adding hardener to the hammers. Rather it's a process that adds fabric softener to the hammers, which increases sustain and mellows out the sound of the hammers. If the OP's issue is that his hammers sound too bright, and he is planning on replacing them to address this issue, then it may be worth his time to try a low cost method that I and others on this forum have found to be effective to improve and even out the tone of hammers. Unlike needle voicing and lacquering, spraying alcohol/fabric softener onto a set of hammers per instructions in the thread I mentioned does not require much expertise. It is a non-destructive and relatively simple process that is inexpensive and makes quite a difference in the sound.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting everyone try this on their pianos willy nilly. But if you're inclined to do so, or if you're getting ready to toss your hammers anyway, it's a reasonable thing to try to alter the tone of your existing hammers.


Daily driver: Yamaha Avantgrand N1
First crush: Kawai GL10, MP11SE
Current fling: Petrof III
Foster child: 1927 Kurtzmann upright
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 117
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 117
Changing hammers is a topic that goes straight to my heart and I advise EXTREME CAUTION!!!!!!!
I recently had hammers replaced on my 70 year old Grotrian-Steinweg by a tech with whom I was not working with confidently. Major disappointment. Technically the hammer replacement was done very well but the technician seemed not to take any interest in voicing when I described my dissatisfaction with the sound quality. Fortunately I found another technician who was personally interested in that era of German crafted pianos and who generously spent enough time voicing to bring back a very satisfactorytone.

DO KEEP Any hammers removed if you replace them with new ones... In case you want to change back to the former ones.
Know the reputation of your technician who will be VOICING your particular make of piano. Installing and adjusting mechanically moving parts of a piano is one skill, But voicing goes “outside of the box.”

About the fabric softener on hammers—Emery Wang, Can you tell us what is the chemical composition of this liquid? Lanolin is in sheep’s wool (felt on hammers) — is there any component in the fabric softener similar to lanolin? Most clothing is not going to be wool fabric so I’m wondering what are the ingredients in fabric softener? I read that thread in the tech forum and vowed I would never allow such a substance on such an expensive valuable part of the piano sound producing mechanism— The hammer. That thread convinced me it’s a quick fix without time proven data.

pianomarh, take time voicing your current hammers and feel free in your dialogue with your tech about the quality of your piano’s tone.

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,051
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,051
Hi Coda. I don't have data on the chemical makeup of fabric softener vs. lanolin. I can tell you it works to mellow out the sound of the hammers. Since I like a rounder, warmer sound, it works for me. Think Shigeru Kawai hammer tone vs. standard Kawai.

As for longevity, 6 months of daily playing hasn't cause the sound to brighten much. That seems to be about the same longevity as needling, from what I've read here on the forum. If by longevity you mean the long term health of the hammer, I don't know. My guess is that fabric softener can't be worse for a hammer than regular needling, and may need to be applied with less frequency than needling. My impression from Todd is once you get the proper amount of fabric softener into the hammers, you never need to add any again. The felt fibers retain the lubrication.

My real world experience is all anecdotal, however, so you're right to take it with a grain or two of salt. Since I am a DIYer and I don't buy expensive pianos, perhaps I'm more willing to experiment. I am very particular, however, about the quality of sound my piano puts out so I would not recommend this if it wasn't working to my ear.

As with anything new, you're right to be cautious and skeptical. I don't think adding fabric softener is a new thing, but it is a less common voicing option. Adding chemical hardeners to hammers is certainly nothing new, I think Steinway has been doing it for quite some time. Again, my post is in response to an OP who seemed ready to replace his hammers anyway. In that case, I think it's worth a try.


Daily driver: Yamaha Avantgrand N1
First crush: Kawai GL10, MP11SE
Current fling: Petrof III
Foster child: 1927 Kurtzmann upright
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,974
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,974
One main question is: how desperate are you to change hammers? Given all the work involved, including what has been mentioned in previous posts, plus a lot which hasn't, (such as weighing off the hammers pre-installation and weighing off the keys post-installation,) the total cost can easily be $4000, maybe more.
Unless you are willing and able to cover the expense of having it done correctly, any discussion about changing hammers is moot.

I would in an experienced voicer.


JG
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai CA93 vs Kawai CA67
by talamundele - 09/21/21 11:57 AM
Viscount Physis V100 and G1000
by David Izquierdo - 09/21/21 10:50 AM
Yamaha CLP 575 VS Kawai Ca48
by Amadeus M. - 09/21/21 09:16 AM
Charles Walter
by Judise - 09/21/21 09:12 AM
Pronunciation .... lol
by cygnusdei - 09/21/21 07:45 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics209,223
Posts3,134,023
Members102,788
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5