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I thought it sounded pretty good to be honest! But with the pieces you picked, it was hard to tell how good (or otherwise) the temperement and stretch were.

Paul.

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Originally Posted by pyropaul
I thought it sounded pretty good to be honest! But with the pieces you picked, it was hard to tell how good (or otherwise) the temperement and stretch were.

Paul.

Uh oh, I just assumed it was something anyone with good ears could pick up instantly because I got criticized by some random piano technician online for my Chopin op.25 no.6 recording 2 years ago, who said "it's really out of tune, you need to hire a tuner!". What would be a good piece to use?

The 3rd one is the end of Medtner op.53 no.1 in Bb minor, I felt like the Bb0 and Bb1 sounded great with the F4 Db5 F5, but the A major part from Chopin Ballade 4 is kind of unsatisfying (C#4 sounds good, but C#5 doesn't). I'm more confident in the stretch than the temperament.

Last edited by trigalg693; 07/02/20 05:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by trigalg693
@WBLynch I don't think it's the iPad microphone's problem. The algorithm just doesn't deal with the extreme ends well. I'd also try the spectral tool instead of the strobe (tap the stroboscope, it'll turn into a spectral power graph zoomed in on +/- 10 cents of the target pitch or so). That said, any standalone mic is probably an improvement over a built in mic.

If you'd like to try out my algorithm, you can save and email me the .ept file and I'll calculate a tuning on my version and send it back to you. In return, I'd like you to listen to that recording on my google drive link and tell me if you think it sounds in tune laugh

Thanks for the tips Trigald693,

I will definitely try that. I don’t know how to get the .ept file off the iPad to send it out or import it back. IPads are crap for computers. But I would be happy to listen to your recording. I don’t know if my analysis would be helpful but it’s worth a shot.

-Bill


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Sorry about the misspelling on your name Trigalg693. My iPad changed it (autocorrupt) and when I noticed it was too late to edit it.


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I don't have an iOS device but on my Android phone, I have a hard time telling what directory the file gets stored into. If you use the PC version on a laptop, you click "Save" after recording all the keys, and it'll let you save a .ept extension file somewhere. Then the next time you open the app, you can click "Open" and select the file, and it'll load the recorded note data.

If I send you back a file with the tuning calculated, you can open it then click "Tune" and it'll have the target pitches all ready to go.

I realized my C#5 sounded bad because I let it go 2 cents sharp, stretching the octave a little too much. Now Chopin Ballade 4 sounds great! I'll post a whole video soon.

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Thanks Trigalg693.

I was trained to tune by ear with just an A440 fork. A little while later I invested in an Accutuner for about $1200. It was a very interesting device and had measurement, calculation, and tuning features. it used a rotating LED “strobe” that was very easy to see and use. Even at the top notes with lots of false beats and competing harmonics due to undamped strings, you could interpret the flashing lights.

I never bonded with the device and found it too cumbersome to use, and used it just to check my temperaments. After a few months I put it away completely. A lot of money wasted. I got an octave set of fine tuning forks to help me check my temperament and used that with my ears from then on. People were always happy with my tunings and I had a lot of regular customers and referrals.

In the late 90’s I tried using a laptop with software but it was a disaster. Never worked out for me. It’s too hard to work with wires and equipment strewn about. A fork, hammer, and some mutes and I’m good.

my point being that I’m not inclined to mess with a laptop again.

It’s been almost 20 years since I tuned professionally so the iPad seemed like a worthy device and I wanted to give Entropy a try. Overall it works good.

I will try to get a microphone though.

-Bill


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I finally got tired of touching up the tuning after the 4th time and have just been playing on it since. I'm personally very happy with this temperament. Here's Chopin Ballade 4 done within 24 hours of tuning:


I'm also working on some more code changes which will be up in a day or so. PW user "Dore" has a M&H Model A which he's going to try tuning with my fork, we'll see how that goes!

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Thank you for uploading this. So accomplished!

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Originally Posted by trigalg693
I finally got tired of touching up the tuning after the 4th time and have just been playing on it since. I'm personally very happy with this temperament. Here's Chopin Ballade 4 done within 24 hours of tuning:

I'm also working on some more code changes which will be up in a day or so. PW user "Dore" has a M&H Model A which he's going to try tuning with my fork, we'll see how that goes!

Amazing playing and beautiful tuning, trigalg693 !

Is there any way to get your mods into the IOS version for iPad?

I tuned a customer (friends) piano using entropy but it was a bad experience. It took so long to measure and one time the app blew and lost everything, having to start over. Then the save function wouldn’t work and it took forever. I ended up tuning the top half above the temperament by ear. Much faster.

But I can’t set a temperament like what you got. Mine are always too pure.

Bravo on the playing and congratulations on your tuning.

-Bill


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Originally Posted by WBLynch
Is there any way to get your mods into the IOS version for iPad?
-Bill

Hi Bill, thanks for the kind words! Some tech said it doesn't sound good, so I was a little worried, but I guess these things are subjective.

As far as iOS goes, from what I understand it would have to go through the iOS app store which makes it a bit of a challenge since the original author would need to re-release it. Same with Android, I don't actually know how installing an app works...

If you're interested in giving Windows a try, I think it should be doable with replacing 2 small files (or maybe just 1). I can try installing it on Mac OSX to see if it's a simple swap there. I could put the files up on Google Drive or Dropbox for anyone to download.

I did manage to transfer the tuning file from my computer onto my Android phone by dropping it into a folder named "Documents". I can try to figure out how to do that with an iOS device, so you can send me a tuning file and I can compute the tuning for you.

Last edited by trigalg693; 07/13/20 12:06 AM.
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Originally Posted by trigalg693
If you're interested in giving Windows a try, I think it should be doable with replacing 2 small files (or maybe just 1) <...> so you can send me a tuning file and I can compute the tuning for you.

I might drag out the old laptop and give it a go.

Thanks


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Entropy Piano Tuner no longer available on Apple Store for IOS?

Apple forced a stupid update on my iPad which went wrong and required a full restore and update. When it finally came back I went to check EPT and it said it couldn’t load the app. Searching the AppStore Entropy Piano Tuner is no longer listed.

Is there anyway to get it back on an iPad? Is anyone in touch with the app team who could encourage them to put it back up?

Thanks, Bill


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It's still listed on the Amazon App Store. I just downloaded it. You might have to have a Fire tablet from Amazon to download it but their tablets are very inexpensive.


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Originally Posted by That Guy
It's still listed on the Amazon App Store. I just downloaded it. You might have to have a Fire tablet from Amazon to download it but their tablets are very inexpensive.

Thanks.

Yeah, that’s true but I have four iPads available and didn’t want to have to buy a new device and learn its idiotsyncracies just for one app.


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I haven't been able to contact the original authors. However, last night I finished adding the changes that should make my algorithm work on any piano, so if anyone wants to send me a tuning file I'm happy to run it for you.

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Originally Posted by WBLynch
It took so long to measure and one time the app blew and lost everything

the main problem of this shitty software. It doesn't run until EACH note is measured. All other softwares do that better. The extreme notes on some pianos sound so bad, that you cannot measure them.

Last edited by Andymania; 08/11/20 11:56 AM.

excuse my bad english, I'm not native. Corrections are always welcome!
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Hello everyone,

Since the forum at piano-tuner.com is gone/down I have to ask here if someone might have answer for my question.

So, the problem I am encountering is that when I try to record, the quality is VERY mixed. Some notes are randomly good (in the green) but most notes have not even registered on the quality scale. Furthermore, the sound is distorted on the bad quality notes, where it sound as it has missed the start of the recording (just like setting the attack to slow on a synth). I have tried to re-record. changed the recording levels, how hard I hit the keys, the microphone placement etc. etc. I have also tried my Lenovo laptops built in mic. All have the same results! To me there must be something wrong with the software. Which I have re-installed multiple times. BTW, I am using v.1.2.0 on Windows 10.

Yes, I am using a "good" mic, it is a SE Electro­nics SE 2200. Its a decent mic and infinitely better than the built-in one in a laptop or tablet. It records perfectly in my DAW (cakewalk) so I can not see that the mic is the issue, plus that I randomly get the occasional good recordings of some notes.

Any suggestions?

/Anders

Last edited by Masterofacid; 09/01/20 06:31 AM.
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Make sure you muted all but 1 of the multi-string notes. The quality is an inharmonicity measurement, it doesn't mean your piano sucks. Once it's tuned and at the right tension the quality will normalize more and approach the standard inharmonicity curve.

Also, if you're very out of tune, Entropy tuner may not be the best option.

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Jeffcat,

Thanks for the response.

No, the muting is not the issue. Even with the single string bass notes, it is still the same problem. The piano is to my ear not totally out of tune, but should that affect the quality parameter? Should it not only affect the programs possibility to automatically detect which key I am pressing. As it is now, I get the same bad results with automatic detection as with "forced" recording.

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Try the mobile version.

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