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They leaked the presentation through another channel. For those who understand Indonesian. I couldn't bear it myself (and it's not about the language).
She says the piano is uncannily close to the real thing, and that she can detect all sorts of subtleties between ppp and fff. “If I hit the keys real hard, I hear a very loud but complex response“. Her favorite finish is the rosewood.
And about that action, it is simply indistinguishable from the real thing, “how did they do it“, she says.
Needless to say, she firmly believes this is the best digital out there.
P.S.
The song at the beginning is about love, peace, and the world coming together in kumbaya-well-balanced richness!
She says the piano is uncannily close to the real thing, and that she can detect all sorts of subtleties between ppp and fff. “If I hit the keys real hard, I hear a very loud but complex response“. Her favorite finish is the rosewood.
And about that action, it is simply indistinguishable from the real thing, “how did they do it“, she says.
Needless to say, she firmly believes this is the best digital out there.
P.S.
The song at the beginning is about love, peace, and the world coming together in kumbaya-well-balanced richness!
Infinite sense of humour reported! Read the post at your own risk if you are too serious about digital pianos!
She says the piano is uncannily close to the real thing, and that she can detect all sorts of subtleties between ppp and fff. “If I hit the keys real hard, I hear a very loud but complex response“. Her favorite finish is the rosewood.
And about that action, it is simply indistinguishable from the real thing, “how did they do it“, she says.
Needless to say, she firmly believes this is the best digital out there.
P.S.
The song at the beginning is about love, peace, and the world coming together in kumbaya-well-balanced richness!
Infinite sense of humour reported! Read the post at your own risk if you are too serious about digital pianos!
Ah! But she's lovely. She can say do what she wants, do what she wants!
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one confused by the 700 series, LOL. I'm on Kraft Music, comparing specs on the 600 and 700 GPs and.....so, why did Yamaha do this? The 700 series of GPs drops midi and Bluetooth, opting only for USB. The 600 series had all 3. 4 more voices in the 795. Grand Touch S action in the 765. Supposedly some different sampling?
I expect there are more "under the hood" changes that aren't immediately obvious from comparing specification tables. This is why it's important to play-test instruments in person whenever and wherever possible.
I have been looking at the specs of all the models in the 700 series on the Yamaha website, and it seems like only the CLP 785 has the counter-weights. Which is the most expenssive one, probably gonna be around 4000,- euros, if not more.
Which is kinda weird, cause i belive the CA79 also comes with counter-weights, and is around 3000,- euros, a thousand euro less.... am i missing something?
I have been looking at the specs of all the models in the 700 series on the Yamaha website, and it seems like only the CLP 785 has the counter-weights. Which is the most expenssive one, probably gonna be around 4000,- euros, if not more.
Which is kinda weird, cause i belive the CA79 also comes with counter-weights, and is around 3000,- euros, a thousand euro less.... am i missing something?
The CN29 is around 1250 Euros and also includes counterweights. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that the CN29 (with counterweights) is a better instrument than the CLP-775 (without counterweights). It's important to consider the instrument as a whole, rather than focus too much on individual specifications.
I have been looking at the specs of all the models in the 700 series on the Yamaha website, and it seems like only the CLP 785 has the counter-weights. Which is the most expenssive one, probably gonna be around 4000,- euros, if not more.
Which is kinda weird, cause i belive the CA79 also comes with counter-weights, and is around 3000,- euros, a thousand euro less.... am i missing something?
The CN29 is around 1250 Euros and also includes counterweights. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that the CN29 (with counterweights) is a better instrument than the CLP-775 (without counterweights). It's important to consider the instrument as a whole, rather than focus too much on individual specifications.
Kind regards, James x
So , i really cannot sense counter weights on digital actions. For example, I believe es8 has counter weights, and i couldn't sense something different than nwx action other than the usual differences because it is different, but has no counterweights
Counterweights are just another silly emulation on digital pianos that shouldn't be there On real acoustic pianos the bass hammers need to be big and heavy and that makes the downweight of these keys too high which affects pianissimo playing. When you play very quiet the downweight is most easily perceptible and would act almost like a spring against your fingers. By adding lead weights you put the downweight within the expected range and so pianissimo playing is more predictable and even across the keys. But it adds more inertia to the keys and that feels like sluggish keys on fortissimo strokes It's a sacrifice.
I understand the viewpoint that digital pianos should emulate acoustic pianos even with their quirks, so I'm OK with that. However going as far as making the bass keys overly heavy as on a big concert grand and then putting counterweights is just a silly thing IMO. The keyboard in the Cybrid doesn't have counterweights and even without them the bass hammers are not very heavy, the downweight is around 50g and then the treble keys go as low as 36g downweight and honestly that's so pleasant to play. I believe it's from a small baby grand. Coincidentally I read some passages from a Chopin book with quotes from Chopin himself and his students about how his preference has been always for the Pleyel as having very light keyboard with shallow key dip. His fortissimo was nowhere near today's thunderous tone and he never played too loud, referring to "dog barks" when his pupils played too loud. I understand it's all about preference after all. But if it was me, I'd prefer keyboards with light hammers and no counterweights.
As I understand it, counterweights are not some fundamental principle/requirement for a key or action. They're a tool that can employed when the need arises. So if you have a key that is unbalanced because it's too heavy on the action end of the balance rail, or an action that is on the heavy side, one way you can mitigate it is with counterweights on the front of the keys.
Taken by itself, advertising counterweights is kind of odd IMO. It's kind of like saying "our keys/action aren't well-balanced so we've fixed them with counterweights."
Also, counterweights have their own drawbacks, such as increasing dynamic downweight, slowing key return and repetition rates, etc.
As Kawai James says, don't just assume actions with counterweights are better by nature of having them. An ideal action would probably be designed to minimize or eliminate the need for counterweights; but counterweights can be an effective solution if your action can't be designed that way.
“Key weights”, as well as “escapement “, are simply good for selling/marketing digital pianos to those obsessed with coming as close as possible to the real thing regardless of whether some aspects related to the ‘real’ thing are not relevant to the digital domain, and, sometimes, even make things worse.
Most people haven’t got a clue why these weights exist on an acoustic piano, but if a digital also has similar weights it must mean that the digital “is closer to an acoustic”.
If I’m not mistaken, escapement on a real acoustic happens by fault rather than by default, yet many here would not buy a digital if it doesn’t have that “click” that feels so good!
Bingo! The mechanics and dynamics of acoustic pianos present design problems and force compromises. So it's odd and silly that digital pianos should emulate those problems and implement the compromises ... all in the name of authenticity. It's absurd.
If digitals had been invented three centuries ago, how many of the compromises would be present? Would counterweights be there? Would escapement? Would wood?
Originally Posted by Gombessa
As I understand it, counterweights are not some fundamental principle/requirement for a key or action. They're a tool that can employed when the need arises. So if you have a key that is unbalanced because it's too heavy on the action end of the balance rail, or an action that is on the heavy side, one way you can mitigate it is with counterweights on the front of the keys.
Taken by itself, advertising counterweights is kind of odd IMO. It's kind of like saying "our keys/action aren't well-balanced so we've fixed them with counterweights."
There are other electronic keyboard instruments that are not designed to be acoustic piano substitutes.
If you don't want to play an electronic instrument like the piano is played then get one of those.
I don't see any problem in digital PIANOS trying to faithfully emulate a "real" piano.
But I also don't diss these digital substitutes and say that the ultimate goal should be getting an acoustic.
Of course some of the emulations might not really be needed for most of the world's population (like me) who are clueless enough to not miss the feel of the escapement for example.
I believe the general consensus among those who have played actions with and without counterweights is that their presence in digital piano actions improves the key touch. For example, most players prefer the RHIII action (with counterweights) to that of RHII (without counterweights). The same is often said for the CLP-685 (GrandTouch with counterweights) vs the CLP-675 (GrandTouch without counterweights).
@Kawai James, my impression of counterweights were that they where added as such, so one could have more control overall, or like play repeated notes faster....
Thats why it kinda weirded me out when i saw that only the most expenssive one came with counterweights, and the other models dont. So, one immediatly thinks "this one comes with counterweights and is more expenssive, so it must be an better digital piano"
But, looking at some of the comments, some people dont care about the counterweights.... they are fine without it, it seems.
I myself, have been playing on a N1 AvantGrand these passed few years, (which ofcourse has a real grand action build-in) so by no means am i an expert when it comes to digital pianos, as i dont have much exprerience with them, and the "bells and whistels" or "extras" they come with
Me, personally, care only about the piano sound, and the feel & touch of the keyboard. (as in, does it come close to an real grand action as close as possible) The rest i dont need.
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