|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
79 members (AaronSF, apianostudent, beeboss, brdwyguy, benkeys, Abdulrohmanoman, accordeur, 19 invisible),
2,241
guests, and
447
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439 |
Analysis is worthwhile ... when starting with good data. But to perform analysis on bullcrudish marketing banter and press release trash is like trying to mine gold in a septic tank. There's something new this time:
[quote]Grand Expression Modeling ... <2020-revision of seller's same-old banter> ...
I'm trying to understand it. To me it sounds like they may have recreated the possibility of playing leggiero and similar other techniques. We've discussed ... The seller's quoted material is crap. It's like a Jedi mind trick. The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded. Resist! Either put fingers on their keyboard. Or, lacking that ... just ignore.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 631
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 631 |
It's 2020 and we're still getting the kind of LCD screen from the 90s...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,268
7000 Post Club Member
|
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,268 |
Well, maybe I exhibited wishful thinking on my side. But the Yamaha commercial BS is suspiciously similar to what I have tried to guess. And if theoretically they implemented what I've been complaining about ('till I'm blue in the mouth) about the lack of escapement, etc., they might have actually worked around the problem by providing better software detection which would at least partially solve through a software the inherent hardware problem of digital piano actions lacking escapement. That would be good news for digital piano owners Or just BS.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,751
5000 Post Club Member
|
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,751 |
I vote for BS! And about the interface, no, it’s not a touch screen, but rather a touch-sensitive one with a fixed template! What a marvel of technology.........Not! I’m suing Yamaha! Who’s with me?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 631
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 631 |
I was already going to sue Yamaha for that horrible control panel on the AvantGrand series before this
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 801
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 801 |
404 Excitement not found. It still sounds like the same Sampling from the older models. I doubt the GrandTouch(S) has been improved alot. Feels like another cheap shot by Yamaha to sell the same Crap over and over.
Last edited by Tyr; 07/01/20 09:00 AM.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,559
7000 Post Club Member
|
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,559 |
404 Excitement not found. May I have your permission to borrow that and use with impunity? It’s brilliant!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,154
4000 Post Club Member
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,154 |
It still sounds like the same Sampling from the older models. The funny thing about "new samples" is that the pianos they sample haven't changed. So what has? Yamaha has been one of the leading manufacturers of professional audio gear for several decades already, so are they still only learning how to record a piano? Have the previous samples been substandard somehow? Did they use the wrong type of microphones in the wrong positions? What new did they learn since the previous sampling session? Are they admitting that the older Clavinovas are flawed? 😉 (Of course the binaural Bösendorfer is actually a new thing.)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,268
7000 Post Club Member
|
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,268 |
A new sampling will be needed if they came up with multichannel speakers or something that required special sampling. For instance, the 4-channel sampling in the N1X is made so that it suits the speaker system of the N1X. When mixed down to stereo it is not very convincing. Which is also why through headphones only the CFX Binaural is good whereas the Bosendorfer and CFX stereo-mixdown versions are rather bland.
Last edited by CyberGene; 07/01/20 09:21 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 801
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 801 |
404 Excitement not found. May I have your permission to borrow that and use with impunity? It’s brilliant! Sure. Have fun.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439 |
Good one. 404 Excitement not found. Feels like another cheap shot by Yamaha to sell the same crap over and over. Indeed ... if you read the ad-copy from thirty years ago you see the same claims. The same BS.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,868
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,868 |
It's 2020 and we're still getting the kind of LCD screen from the 90s... This LCD has appeared 6 years ago (CLP5xx). It was a revolution : the CLP4xx (Excepted the 480) had a 3 digits LED display... then don’t be impatient !
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,565
4000 Post Club Member
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,565 |
Sweet Jesus, the negativity, from people who haven't seen one, heard one or played one is just overwhelming. The 600 series Clavinova was entirely competitive with the best of whatever else was available at the same price points - personal taste dictates choices between Yamaha, Roland and Kawai for home console pianos.
Now comes the 700 series with certain enhancements/changes - the real world effects of which we don't yet know. So give it a break guys. This forum is getting very boring. Either that or my tolerance for it all seems to have deserted me. Speculating is fine...it's all we can do anyway...but to just indiscriminately plunge the knife in is not helpful to anyone.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,480
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,480 |
Why is everyone saying its a new action... Its the same overly heavy grandtouch, yamaha have ignored all feedback as predicted, they lost a loyal customer in me, I'll be opting for kawai now.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,154
4000 Post Club Member
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,154 |
The "GrandTouch-S" in the lower end models is new.
But does the "S" mean short or stiff?
Maybe it's short AND stiff. 😄
But seriously, we don't really know much yet -- like said above -- so let's wait and see.
There's quite much new actually at least at the specification and "marketing jargon" level.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,751
5000 Post Club Member
|
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,751 |
...maybe it’s short AND stiff AND sh*t! Okay, now we’ve really upset EssBrace.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,268
7000 Post Club Member
|
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,268 |
Call me a hopeless optimist but I believe in that Grand Expression Modeling and I think they implemented it through changes in sensor design and/or positioning and/or scanning, etc. And to allow for that, they made changes to the existing action which were also translated into the lower end models, hence the GrandTouch-S which probably omits mechanical luxuries (from the specs it seems the GrandTouch-S doesn't contain wood, for instance) but retains the realistic behavior. But I'm a Yamaha guy now, so I'm mild-mannered with them Let's see.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 1,106
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 1,106 |
I just want to know 1 thing.
HOW BIG are these new Touch-S pivots ? Ya got 1 chance to wow the crowd. Don't blow it yamaha.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,730
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,730 |
I think the "S" in "GrandTouch-S" stands for "sissy". Only the more expensive models require a real man's strength* to depress the keys.
*Or the use of additional tools, like hammers, clubs, etc.
Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28 Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 Focus: 1850±100 years
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,268
7000 Post Club Member
|
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,268 |
I also think the marketing department is unfairly criticized. Imagine just for a moment that I'm right with my theory about the leggiero stuff, the trills and the "punching bag" effect, etc. How many of you actually got what I describe, the mumbo-jumbo, what the problem is, what the solution is and why that is important? I know for sure that only a bunch of regulars here know what I'm talking about. So, again, imagine the engineers at Yamaha came up with these solutions. And that needs to be marketed. Do you believe there's any possible way of communicating that to the regular piano buyer without confusing them and at the same time being clear, concise and deep enough to give a few nerds on an Internet forum all the needed information about how they implemented something very special? No need for this negativity indeed.
Last edited by CyberGene; 07/01/20 11:36 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,405
Posts3,349,434
Members111,637
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|