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Joined: Sep 2015
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Originally Posted by Beowulf
There's just not enough love for VSL CFX frown

Somehow it got overshadowed here by the Steinway and now the Bösendorfer. That's only on PW though, and not the real world.

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VladK, just open the Modartt webpage, the first thing you see in the head is Modartt - True modelling. Then they say this about Pianoteq:

Sounds and behaves just like a real piano

There has never been a lack of words and declarations from Modartt, about their piano emulations being very true and real emulations.

So I'm surprised you ask if they've declared they have something true. You can't make a bolder statement about sound and playability of a piano VST, than by declaring it sounds and behaves just like a real piano.

Come to think of it, all of the piano VSTs out there are fake, by your apparent understanding of the word. None of us are getting a physical piano moved into our rooms, by using a piano VST.

I get what you're trying to say, but all the VST manufacturers make statements, of which some may not be grounded in reality.

It doesn't remove the duty from us to apply common sense, take all statements with a grain of salt, and listen to the products ourselves.

As has been stated here time and again - the best piano VST FOR YOU, is the one that sounds and plays good TO YOU.

Last edited by TheodorN; 06/19/20 03:32 PM.

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Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, NI Giant, Sampletekk White Grand, Choc. Audio Steinbach, and a few more. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
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While I find Pete14's lack of Pianoteq arguments disturbing, it is nonetheless stupendously versatile. Does this evoke the sound and emotion of a classical piano performance in a concert hall or what?:



Edit: Apparently the reverb is an external plugin.

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Not to further disturb you, Navindra, but yes, that there tech sounds very real to me.

Synthetic? Who said synthetic?
Digital? Who said digital?

That there is a real instrument with heart and soul; if arrived at through 0s and 1s, it is, still, beauty in its purest form.

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Synchron CFX is amazing. Sounds SOOO real...


Finally bought the P515
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Originally Posted by dmd
I rarely use a VST .... but when I do .... I prefer Pianoteq.

It gives me instant access to many different sounds.

If I do not particularly care for the one I have chosen, I chose a different one.

I usually modify the bass sound (reduce it) and add a velocity curve for the moment.

And go.

I do not listen intently to hear if it sounds exactly like a real piano.

I just listen to hear if it sounds good to my ears.

And it usually does.

Then after a bit ... I might tire of it and I might select a different one.

Or I might use my MP11SE internal sound and somehow it now sounds better than it did prior to using the VST.

Magical ...

And on and on it goes ....

I must say, probably the Kawai DP's have the best in terms of internal sounds when it comes to piano.
But for Pianoteq, at least at the moment, I find their tone very synthetic to listen to. I've heard many classical demos on the website, and the higher register has this strange sound that just sounds different compared with a sampled VST, let alone an acoustic instrument. The same can be said for the bass notes.
But I also know that there will be a day when such modeled pianos might start to match the quality of sounds offered in the sampled libraries, but IMO this day is still a bit far away. Until then, I'll be happy with my VSL Steinway and Garritan CFX. smile

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Originally Posted by joemama42O
Synchron CFX is amazing. Sounds SOOO real...

Yes, it does sound quite amazing, at least in the demos. However, a few keys at certain velocity levels sound out of tune to me, plus the tone is a bit on the harsh end, so I purchased the Steinway instead.

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I use Pianoteq for most of my practice when I'm using a digital piano, although I own Noire and Ravenscroft. I recently had the opportunity to play the Ravenscroft in conjunction with a Kawai NV-10 as a controller - it's superb. I don't personally find the Ravenscroft tone terribly harsh, but I do like it's clarity.

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Originally Posted by David Lai
Originally Posted by joemama42O
Synchron CFX is amazing. Sounds SOOO real...

Yes, it does sound quite amazing, at least in the demos. However, a few keys at certain velocity levels sound out of tune to me, plus the tone is a bit on the harsh end, so I purchased the Steinway instead.
I find Garritan CFX much harsher on the treble registers than Synchron CFX.


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Originally Posted by LuxPerpetua
No love for Keyscape ? is that more for composers than for pianists ?
I really enjoy playing it..
Probably more so then pianoteq.


But where i really love it is when throwing it trough omnisphere.. and creating sounds that play like a piano, but sound spacy and wide..

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What surprise me is that there are not many piano’s moddelled or sampled from the high end Kawai grand piano’s?

If i had to build a collection of piano sounds..

I guess i would add
- Kawai
- Steinway
- Bösendorfer
- Fazioli
- Yamaha
To my collection to cover most of the spectrum..
And the Roland V-piano for its own unique sound


But none here named a piano modeled after the great Kawai’s Shiguri.

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Originally Posted by Bachus
What surprise me is that there are not many piano’s moddelled or sampled from the high end Kawai grand piano’s?

If i had to build a collection of piano sounds..

I guess i would add
- Kawai
- Steinway
- Bösendorfer
- Fazioli
- Yamaha
To my collection to cover most of the spectrum..
And the Roland V-piano for its own unique sound


But none here named a piano modeled after the great Kawai’s Shiguri.
With my work I play Kawais exclusively - a mix of acoustic and digital. The Shigeru concert grand is a wonderful thing, and I enjoy the SK-EX rendering on the NV10, but a high-end Shigeru Kawai VST would be an awesome thing to have.

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The SK-EX needs to be next on VSL's list of Synchron Pianos.


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The Kawai pianos are really nice. I've played on an acoustic one before, but more I have heard on their digital piano offerings. It would be cool if a VST company could investigate one of them. But with my limited experience, I do believe that between the pianos, they sound similar to each other. Correct me if I'm wrong here! smile

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If it was only true about SK...
Here are some modern concet/recital grands and uprights that are far from being bad but were never sampled yet:

Baldwin SD10 (pre-1988)
Baldwin SF10 (pre-1988)
C. Bechstein C 234
Blüthner Model 1
Blüthner Model 2
Blüthner Model S
Borgato Grand Prix 333
Borgato Gran Coda L282
Bösendorfer Concert Grand 280VC
Bösendorfer Grand Piano 214VC
Estonia Model 274
Estonia Model 225
August Förster Model 275
August Förster Model 215
August Förster Model 134K
Grotrian G-277
Grotrian G-225
Kawai SK-EX-L
Kawai SK-EX
Kawai SK-7
Mason & Hamlin Model CC
Mason & Hamlin Model BB
Mason & Hamlin Model 50
Petrof P 284 Mistral
Petrof AP 275
Ravenscroft Model 220
Sauter Concert 275
Sauter Omega 220
Sauter Master Class 130
Schimmel K280
Schimmel K230
Schimmel K132
Seiler SE-278
Seiler SE-242
Seiler SE-132
Steingraeber & Söhne E-272
Steingraeber & Söhne C-212
Steingraeber & Söhne 138 K
Steinway K-132
Yamaha YUS5

Add to this list unique pianos built by:

Chris Maene
David Klavins
Wayne Stuart


Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
Vlad,
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Oh, and I forgot C. Bechstein Concert 8


Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
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That seems like a nice list, I'd love to see more variety in piano libary's.

Then again the next best Steinway is always welcome. smile

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Opinion from a newby to VST: So far, I have NI Noire and Pianoteq. Noire is running all the time, so when I fire up the DP, it is what is playing.

I have experimented with Pianoteq, but honestly, I don't know much about all of the various settings. I do set a velocity curve and I've loaded various settings from the FXP community. Still, there is something that just sounds so .. tinny? .. can't quite put my finger on it. Especially in the middle register, and across all of the models. It does sound fatiguing as David Lai has said (and apologies if I've mis-attributed here!! I will correct this if I'm wrong!)

For me, Noire has been great for practice - out of the box, no adjustments.

That said, I've got an eLicenser key on the way to try out the VSL BI.

I've watched many of the YT reviews by Simeon Amburgey and am convinced that he can make any and all instruments sound like they are the best and only VST in the world.

So maybe the "best" VST has something to do with the best playing... smile

PS I want to love Pianoteq. There are a lot of things I believe a fully algorithmic-driven sound can deliver. But, as others have said, that may be some time away. But the video posted a few entries above this one makes it sound amazing. Why can't I get it to sound like that? Maybe I need to fiddle with settings and mics and the like?


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I know people will hate me for this but imo Kawai sounds kinda plain (their grands). I prefer Bosendorfer, then Steinway, then Yamaha, then Kawai. Still sounds good though.


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@TheodorN
Try activating the reverb and going through some of the presets, and see if that works on your end.

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