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The newest American Baldwin Hamilton that I tuned was markedly worse than the Chinese Baldwin Hamilton that I tuned.


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Originally Posted by Hakki
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by Hakki
Ok. Here comes another one.

Yamaha B3 (121 cm) is INFERIOR in quality compared to Haulin 130.

So far we have :
Suzuki SZG 53
Yamaha GB
Yamaha B3

named as pianos of INFERIOR quality wrt their Chinese counterparts.

Any others?
I actually preferred the Hailun 130 over the B3.
It was just that I believe the Yamaha B3 would last longer.
The B3 was superior to the Hailun 124.

Ok then so far we have two pianos named to have INFERIOR QUALITY wrt their Chinese counterparts:

Suzuki SZG-53 (Emery Wang)
Yamaha GB (pianoloverus)
No three Hakki ,the 124 Hailun (but not the Hailun 130 )

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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by Hakki
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by Hakki
Ok. Here comes another one.

Yamaha B3 (121 cm) is INFERIOR in quality compared to Haulin 130.

So far we have :
Suzuki SZG 53
Yamaha GB
Yamaha B3

named as pianos of INFERIOR quality wrt their Chinese counterparts.

Any others?
I actually preferred the Hailun 130 over the B3.
It was just that I believe the Yamaha B3 would last longer.
The B3 was superior to the Hailun 124.

Ok then so far we have two pianos named to have INFERIOR QUALITY wrt their Chinese counterparts:

Suzuki SZG-53 (Emery Wang)
Yamaha GB (pianoloverus)
No three Hakki ,the 124 Hailun (but not the Hailun 130 )

I did not count the 130 as a counterpart on second thought because it is 9 cm (3.5 inches) taller than the B3.

But now we have a newcomer and again it is 3:

Suzuki SZG-53 (Emery Wang)
Yamaha GB (pianoloverus)
The newest American Baldwin Hamilton (BDB)

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Originally Posted by Emery Wang
How do you like your BP190, TBell? I wonder why Baldwin doesn't have Parsons bring back the L. It already has a proven scale design and name recognition.

Maybe marketing is what the Chinese lack. The first Chinese stencil brand maker that hooks up with a good western marketing agency that knows how to link these new pianos to their glory days may have a winning combination.

I'm pleased with my BP190 thus far. The key dip was was excessive and this was corrected with some rail punchings and my tech did something to the keybed as well as some minor regulation - not a big deal.

The tone is resonant, the bass and tenor break is very good, and the action is smooth and has medium weight. I feel the treble could sing a bit more but this may have to due to the location in the room and its hard surfaces (I'm debating on moving it to a better acoustical location). The voice has a percussive quality that I'm still getting used to.

On the new scale designs, I wonder if Gibson (Baldwin's owner) didn't want to give the existing designs (R, L, M etc) over to Parsons?

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thanks for your comments of BP 190 that made in parsons china

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Emery Wang:

So far we have these pianos named to have INFERIOR QUALITY wrt their Chinese counterparts:

Suzuki SZG-53 (Emery Wang)(not sure about whether it is not made in China)
Yamaha GB (pianoloverus)
The newest American Baldwin Hamilton (BDB)(vague comparison)

In light of this little poll, you should be convinced that Chinese pianos are really INFERIOR. Because it seems hard to name other pianos that are lower in quality than the Chinese pianos.

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Casually i found this video performing 3 concert grands. One from japan, one from usa, and one from china.

https://youtu.be/429EfrFkft4

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Originally Posted by Ubu
Casually i found this video performing 3 concert grands. One from japan, one from usa, and one from china.

https://youtu.be/429EfrFkft4
That Kayser...whateva sounds horrible.


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Originally Posted by Hakki
Originally Posted by Emery Wang
How do you like your BP190, TBell? I wonder why Baldwin doesn't have Parsons bring back the L. It already has a proven scale design and name recognition.

Maybe marketing is what the Chinese lack. The first Chinese stencil brand maker that hooks up with a good western marketing agency that knows how to link these new pianos to their glory days may have a winning combination.

You need true entrepreneurship for that.

That will not happen in a Communist regime.
It's really not such a stretch - they are halfway there with their activities with Brodmann, Feurich, Ritmüller, etc. There is plenty of entrepreneurial spirit in China. I realise that you have lived through a communist regime yourself, but modern China has aspects that can't be viewed through that old lens - as tempting as it may be to do so. I think you are pushing this "inferior" barrow a little too hard, I must say. (with screaming capital letters each time). Maybe you should relax and take a breath and consider what baggage you are bringing to this discussion. There is no reason what Emery proposed couldn't happen in China. Whether there is a sufficiently strong business case for it is another matter entirely.

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Let's not make this personal.

IMO, their chance of having people like Paolo Fazioli or Dr. Indrek Laul is almost zero. No way.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Ubu
Casually i found this video performing 3 concert grands. One from japan, one from usa, and one from china.

https://youtu.be/429EfrFkft4
That Kayser...whateva sounds horrible.
It would have been awesome that when he starts playing the kayserburg the theater collapses and everybody dies. In reality all 3 sound good to me

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Originally Posted by Hakki
In light of this little poll, you should be convinced that Chinese pianos are really INFERIOR. Because it seems hard to name other pianos that are lower in quality than the Chinese pianos.
No, I believe he understands that your list is meaningless because you're comparing apples to oranges.

You never answered my question about how many and which recently produced Chinese made pianos you've played and how many entry level non Chinese made pianos you've played. You seem unaware of the major improvements in Chinese pianos in last decade or two. You seem unaware or ignore that several Chinese made pianos made the Piano Buyer Staff Recommendations list.

Critically, you ignore that it matters enormously to many people if a piano is only maybe a tiny bit less good than one costing twice as much. People choose to buy products like that all the time and are perfectly happy.

The idea behind your question and "list" seems to be based on some personal prejudice.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 05/13/20 07:36 AM.
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applaud for you Mr pianolvoerus

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Can we summarize that this thread is questioning if there are prejudices in the acoustic piano world? For instance, is it possible that people are ranking NY Steinways undeservedly high and Chinese pianos undeservedly low?

How are these things measured? smile

Last edited by CyberGene; 05/13/20 08:32 AM.

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People remember impressions of pianos long past what newer pianos from the same maker can be. On another thread a poster mentioned that the C series of Yamaha’s are very bright. Yamaha changed that overly bright voice even before coming out with the new CX. I had a 2012 C3 that had a rich full beautiful voice but some people still insist C series pianos are overly bright. Unfortunately some people will always believe that pianos from China are not well made. It will take manufacturers like Hailun and Pearl River to continue to produce quality pianos that can compete with Yamaha, Kawai, and even Steinway to change the world’s opinion about their pianos. Certainly those companies can do that and will in the future. How long? Who knows? Personally I sure don’t feel warm fuzzies about the Chinese government right now but that feeling isn’t towards the Chinese people or they pianos they make.

Last edited by j&j; 05/13/20 09:04 AM.

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Heritage...Trust...

These are not easy to establish.

Maybe it is not the right time for this thread, while there seems to be Worlwide dissapointment on trust nowadays.

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The original question about the "inferiority" of pianos manufactured in China is a very broad term that can be applied in a variety of ways to pianos. So what was the intent of the OP's question?

For instance, inferior could mean the basic build quality and durability of the instruments. Does it hold tuning, does the soundboard hold crown? Does the action function sufficiently to produce sound? You get the picture.

On the other hand, Inferior could be applied as a tonal and performance comparison to other instruments that are considered performance and premium grade pianos.

A Yamaha C-series piano is a quality instrument that provides an excellent musical experience, but many could definitely classify them as INFERIOR to the Yamaha CX and CF pianos they manufacture today based upon they musical experience they provide to the player and the listener.

An Essex is inferior to a Boston which is inferior to a NY Steinway which many would argue is inferior to a Hamburg Steinway based on tonal and mechanical performance criteria. BUT most agree (including Steinway) that the Essex and Boston pianos are structurally sound and do produce a pleasant musical tone within their price point based upon the potential of the materials and manufacturing methods used to build them.

You get the picture I'm trying to paint here. I think many of the pianos made in China are QUALITY instruments based on structural / mechanical criteria. They perform and produce the best musical experience they can based upon the materials and manufacturing methods used to build them. Some probably are inferior and have design and build quality issues. However, I personally have not encountered one that can perform on the concert level of a Yamaha CFX, Kawai SK-EX, Bosendorfer Imperial, Baldwin (US) SD-10, Mason Hamiln CC, or a C. Bechstein Concert Grand. So, yes they are INFERIOR, just like a Kimball Vienese Classic 6' 7" Semi-Concert Grand is inferior to a Bosendorfer 170.

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I think a strong fact that contributes to the view of chinese pianos as inferior is the marketing strategy of many chinese piano companies, takking German names for their products, as if they themselves feel inferior or ashamed of their origins. Great contrast with Estonia, who not only doesn't feel inferior but also names its brand after their country.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Hakki
In light of this little poll, you should be convinced that Chinese pianos are really INFERIOR. Because it seems hard to name other pianos that are lower in quality than the Chinese pianos.
No, I believe he understands that your list is meaningless because you're comparing apples to oranges.

You never answered my question about how many and which recently produced Chinese made pianos you've played and how many entry level non Chinese made pianos you've played. You seem unaware of the major improvements in Chinese pianos in last decade or two. You seem unaware or ignore that several Chinese made pianos made the Piano Buyer Staff Recommendations list.

Critically, you ignore that it matters enormously to many people if a piano is only maybe a tiny bit less good than one costing twice as much. People choose to buy products like that all the time and are perfectly happy.

The idea behind your question and "list" seems to be based on some personal prejudice.

Exactly so Pianoloverus.

The only comparison I'm interested in is one that compares two pianos at the same price point. I'm not interested in comparisons of two pianos aimed at different markets because they are the same size or some other arbitrary invented definition of being equivalent.

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Originally Posted by Ubu
I think a strong fact that contributes to the view of chinese pianos as inferior is the marketing strategy of many chinese piano companies, takking German names for their products, as if they themselves feel inferior or ashamed of their origins. Great contrast with Estonia, who not only doesn't feel inferior but also names its brand after their country.

Estonia sounds "nice" and "European" to a Western ear. Unfortunately, many Chinese names do not sound nice to Western ears. And many are simply difficult to pronounce, or Western people do not know how to pronounce it. Also, mix that in with the fact that naming conventions are culturally different in Asian cultures. Just think of all the Chinese restaurant names you've seen in your local Chinatown that are kind of geeky: Always Success, Always Good??? Not how Western people usually name their restaurants.

Having said that, I do like Pearl River and Yangtze River because they're in English (kind of), they can be pronounced, and it reflects Chinese geography and thus, their Chinese origin, like there's nothing to hide here!

I think those Chinese companies that take any old European name and call it their own is lazy (can't be bothered to think of their own name) or a bit deceitful (hey, maybe someone will think it's European!). However, if their market is the Chinese market, maybe that's how their people like it, with a European name and they don't really care what's underneath.

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 05/13/20 10:56 AM.

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