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Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
(Cultural Sidebar)


When I lived in Switzerland, there was a huge international expat community. They'd pass around a bunch of books called "The Xenophobe's Guide to [some country]".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobe%27s_Guides

They were gut-bustlingly funny ... until you read the one from your own country! It wasn't uncommon to hear refrains of "this isn't funny. This isn't funny at all!" Except that they were. From my experience, life gets better when you learn to laugh at yourself!

For the record, I like Canada and Canadians just fine. thumb


I have absolutely no idea why all this was even brought up but it was and you’ve got to wonder what was underlying all that. Very disappointing to say the least.
What is so disappointing?
By the way I may have been born in the UK but was for
many years a South African citizen (yes one of the lost tribe ).Now I consider myself self Canadian ,but I am not blind !
I have family in the UK and South Africa .My Sister ,
niece and nephews stay in South Africa.I have no
idea how this Covid 19 will play out in a country where
the military roam the streets ,and the police shoot people occasionally for not physical distancing !
But who cares South Africa is now just some place in
Africa.
What will finally happen there I do not know.

Canada is full of immigrants of various cultures and
religions.I am sure they may speak strangly as well to
Canadians who are born I'm Canada.
As for spelling ,Canadians often use the American way
of spelling which is different from the English.In South
Africa we used English spelling.My bad spelling has a
lot to do with my phone as to do with my age.
No one was looking down on Canadian's, so nothing to
worry about.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 04/28/20 04:02 PM. Reason: Spelling
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If now with corona going on we trust China enough to buy there the medical equipment we need for saving lifes I don't see how anyone can doubt they can make decent pianos

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Originally Posted by Ubu
If now with corona going on we trust China enough to buy there the medical equipment we need for saving lifes I don't see how anyone can doubt they can make decent pianos

I think this doesn’t have anything to do with pianos because they’re different products, but...

It’s funny you should mention this because we have had to recall certain masks and other equipment that we purchased from China due to poor quality.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globaln...ty-of-toronto-surgical-masks-recall/amp/

We’re not the only country that has recalled Chinese-made masks:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-china-masks-covid-19/amp

There’s a lot more instances of this.

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 04/28/20 04:39 PM.

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Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
(Cultural Sidebar)


When I lived in Switzerland, there was a huge international expat community. They'd pass around a bunch of books called "The Xenophobe's Guide to [some country]".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobe%27s_Guides

They were gut-bustlingly funny ... until you read the one from your own country! It wasn't uncommon to hear refrains of "this isn't funny. This isn't funny at all!" Except that they were. From my experience, life gets better when you learn to laugh at yourself!

For the record, I like Canada and Canadians just fine. thumb


I have absolutely no idea why all this was even brought up but it was and you’ve got to wonder what was underlying all that. Very disappointing to say the least.

Nothing but jocularity underlying my post, but if you want to explain what "this," "it," and "that" are, I'll try to address your disappointment.


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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
(Cultural Sidebar)


When I lived in Switzerland, there was a huge international expat community. They'd pass around a bunch of books called "The Xenophobe's Guide to [some country]".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobe%27s_Guides

They were gut-bustlingly funny ... until you read the one from your own country! It wasn't uncommon to hear refrains of "this isn't funny. This isn't funny at all!" Except that they were. From my experience, life gets better when you learn to laugh at yourself!

For the record, I like Canada and Canadians just fine. thumb


I have absolutely no idea why all this was even brought up but it was and you’ve got to wonder what was underlying all that. Very disappointing to say the least.

Nothing but jocularity underlying my post, but if you want to explain what "this," "it," and "that" are, I'll try to address your disappointment.

Nope, it's fine. I trust you were trying to lighten the situation. It didn't work as intended, obviously, but let's just leave it at that.


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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
What is so disappointing?
By the way I may have been born in the UK but was for
many years a South African citizen (yes one of the lost tribe ).Now I consider myself self Canadian ,but I am not blind !
I have family in the UK and South Africa .My Sister ,
niece and nephews stay in South Africa.I have no
idea how this Covid 19 will play out in a country where
the military roam the streets ,and the police shoot people occasionally for not physical distancing !
But who cares South Africa is now just some place in
Africa.
What will finally happen there I do not know.

Canada is full of immigrants of various cultures and
religions.I am sure they may speak strangly as well to
Canadians who are born I'm Canada.
As for spelling ,Canadians often use the American way
of spelling which is different from the English.In South
Africa we used English spelling.My bad spelling has a
lot to do with my phone as to do with my age.
No one was looking down on Canadian's, so nothing to
worry about.

Lady Bird, no one is saying you have bad spelling. That was just my retort to what I perceived as someone making fun of how Canadians speak, which I view as not nice. I just didn't understand why being Canadian had to be brought up. We were talking about Chinese-made pianos - does it matter if it was a Canadian or an American or a European who would or would not buy a Chinese-made piano? And yet, it was brought up. Why? That was my question. I really don't need it answered though.

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 04/28/20 05:00 PM.

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Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
(Cultural Sidebar)


When I lived in Switzerland, there was a huge international expat community. They'd pass around a bunch of books called "The Xenophobe's Guide to [some country]".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobe%27s_Guides

They were gut-bustlingly funny ... until you read the one from your own country! It wasn't uncommon to hear refrains of "this isn't funny. This isn't funny at all!" Except that they were. From my experience, life gets better when you learn to laugh at yourself!

For the record, I like Canada and Canadians just fine. thumb


I have absolutely no idea why all this was even brought up but it was and you’ve got to wonder what was underlying all that. Very disappointing to say the least.
Yes perhaps we all need those books here !
It all gets too serious when we start thinking about issues like these.

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Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by Ubu
If now with corona going on we trust China enough to buy there the medical equipment we need for saving lifes I don't see how anyone can doubt they can make decent pianos

I think this doesn’t have anything to do with pianos because they’re different products, but...

It’s funny you should mention this because we have had to recall certain masks and other equipment that we purchased from China due to poor quality.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globaln...ty-of-toronto-surgical-masks-recall/amp/

We’re not the only country that has recalled Chinese-made masks:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-china-masks-covid-19/amp

There’s a lot more instances of this.

The percentage of bad Steinways coming out from NY is larger than the percentage of defective equipment from China. And i admit they are different products. But they show the capability and strength of their industry. For me that is very relevant, and a reason to buy a Chinese piano with no worries about it.

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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
(Cultural Sidebar)


When I lived in Switzerland, there was a huge international expat community. They'd pass around a bunch of books called "The Xenophobe's Guide to [some country]".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobe%27s_Guides

They were gut-bustlingly funny ... until you read the one from your own country! It wasn't uncommon to hear refrains of "this isn't funny. This isn't funny at all!" Except that they were. From my experience, life gets better when you learn to laugh at yourself!

For the record, I like Canada and Canadians just fine. thumb



you need more disclaimers/sidebars, R! I'm enjoying clicking them... smile

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It was brought to show that I can imagine how people who originally came from China may feel (or even if they have grand parents who came from China.)
My husband's grand parents came from Germany, then
immigrated to South Africa.He lived in a town called
Wartburg (like Wartburt in Germany )He attended a Lutheran boarding school where German was an
important subject.So he lived in a community where
he was regarded as "German " like the French in Quebec.
Yet he feels a certain amount of shame when certain
aspects of WW2 are mentioned,or appear on TV or in
movies ?
I think I need not say much more about this.
The history of all countries speak.
I just think we need to be careful we do not hurt people.(even if that is not our intention )

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This has been a very interesting discussion.

As some of you know, when I'm not playing piano I'm an international trade regulation attorney, which means I spend a good part of my time advising businesses on country of origin issues. And if I've learned anything over the years, it's that there is no manufactured product where every atom originated in the same country. American pianos with Chinese action parts, German Pianos with American plates, Italian pianos with German keyboards, Australian pianos with French piano wire, and on and on.

Larry.

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Originally Posted by iLaw
This has been a very interesting discussion.

As some of you know, when I'm not playing piano I'm an international trade regulation attorney, which means I spend a good part of my time advising businesses on country of origin issues. And if I've learned anything over the years, it's that there is no manufactured product where every atom originated in the same country. American pianos with Chinese action parts, German Pianos with American plates, Italian pianos with German keyboards, Australian pianos with French piano wire, and on and on.

Larry.

Exactly!

If I buy a piano, I am only concerned about the quality of the piano.

After WWII, people did not like Japanese products because of the low quality back then, not because Japan was a member of the Axis. Same thing for German-made products, nobody said anything about buying Mercedes, BMW, Audi, or VW even though those companies were supplying Hitler's war machines.

Similarly, I do not see anyone boycotting Apple's products for their unethical exploit of Chinese workers, https://www.blackagendareport.com/what-apple-steals-workers-iphone-rate-exploitation

I think, most people/consumers will just go for quality/price ratio. When that is high, they just go for it.

Last edited by DreamPiano80; 04/28/20 05:50 PM.
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Originally Posted by Ubu
The percentage of bad Steinways coming out from NY is larger than the percentage of defective equipment from China. And i admit they are different products. But they show the capability and strength of their industry. For me that is very relevant, and a reason to buy a Chinese piano with no worries about it.

Sorry, but you clearly did not read my posts. I never said quality was my main concern about why I wouldn't buy a Chinese piano (although some Chinese pianos are obviously better quality than others). It is the PERCEPTION of quality that is my main concern right now. China is very capable of making good products. I have no doubt about this. It is whether they do or not (i.e., quality control). The perception of quality has yet to materialize in many areas.

Plus, I'm a little tired of this. Seriously people, go buy a Chinese piano if you think you have no worries about it. I have nothing against that. However, my opinion will not change about whether I will buy one. No more need to try and convince me.

Your statement about Steinway may be true or may not be. But why is that relevant?

I'm going to sign off this particular thread because I'm finding it tedious and people are repeating arguments over and over again.

Have fun!

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 04/28/20 05:51 PM.

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Originally Posted by DreamPiano80
Similarly, I do not see anyone boycotting Apple's products for their unethical exploit of Chinese workers
Actually Apple have repeatedly commented how they were unaware of the exploitation and it was the Chinese factory management that allowed it. And that they make everything possible to avoid what happened. Well, of course they might be lying but I have reasons to believe Apple are not that bad.


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Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Originally Posted by j&j
I don’t know but I’m guessing, Chinese piano purchasers don’t hold China accountable for COVID19 or delaying information regarding the pandemic.

Interesting observation j&j. Assuming this is a reason a person won't buy a piano from China, should one hesitate about buying a German or Japanese piano from the WWII era?

Never forget, Hitler loved Bechstein pianos.

Would I have a Bechstein if it was offered? You betchya! grin


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OTOH, FDR owned a Hardman.

Funny, I owned one of those, too... smile


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by DreamPiano80
Similarly, I do not see anyone boycotting Apple's products for their unethical exploit of Chinese workers
Actually Apple have repeatedly commented how they were unaware of the exploitation and it was the Chinese factory management that allowed it. And that they make everything possible to avoid what happened. Well, of course they might be lying but I have reasons to believe Apple are not that bad.


Of course, Apple did not know anything and it was all the Chinese doing smile

Joking asides, that is what I call "biases".

The article did point out that if Apple did not exploit the Chinese, then iPhones would cost ~ 30K each !!

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I wouldn’t believe an article that says iPhones would cost 30K each of it wasn’t for exploiting people. Sounds like fake news or something. Electronics are not that expensive especially when produced on a mass scale like Apple. Even if they were produced in the US, I doubt they could be more than twice as expensive.


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If you want an alternative, you can buy a Young Chang from Korea or even the Austrian brand Pramberger that is made in Indonesia.

When it comes to buying a piano with a Chinese brand like Hailun or Pearl River, is it because of price competitiveness? Quality? Good sound? Even attachment to China as an ethnic Chinese or having 1 side of the family in China are good reasons.

However, there are many other brands of pianos. People who buy an Apple phone are buying the technology, not the black box that says "Made in China". Apple is a proprietary technology. We may not like the fact that it is coming out of a Foxconn factory in China but do we have an alternative? An Android phone we have the choice of brand A vs. B. If we don't like Huawei, we can go with Samsung.

There is a bigger issue facing Western countries than just made in China pianos. We're talking about more than half the stuff being made in that country. While facing the C-19 pandemic and... the masks, safety gloves, gowns, key ingredients to pharmaceutical drugs need to be sent from China. It's a national security issue facing many countries. Many economies are shifting to service industry jobs and warehouses stocking products that are made in China. Proponents of globalization thinks it's good for everybody. In the short-term it is benefiting 1 country at the expense of every other (China being the factory of the world).

Many of us including myself have a keyboard at home (Yamaha, Roland, Casio, etc.) that is made in China. Do we think twice before buying it?

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Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
If you want an alternative, you can buy a Young Chang from Korea or even the Austrian brand Pramberger that is made in Indonesia.

Pramberger an Austrian brand??!!

Joe Pramberger was an American piano exec who worked for Steinway (NY) and then started his own company.

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