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I've seen this being discussed from time to time and we've rarely seen any official figures. Well, I discovered a current Yamaha upright piano brochure describing the silent function of their upright pianos and the Yamaha CFX binaural is listed as 256MB (which includes also a few other voices but AFAIK doesn't contain any other piano samples, just the binaural CFX for usage with headphones since it's an acoustic piano after all):
Yamaha Upright Brochure

They still ship the older CFIIIS sample in the lesser models and it's listed as 32MB.

256MB is a laughable amount of memory nowadays but OTOH it may use lossless compression. For instance Garritan CFX Lite is 2GB and utilizes compression.


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I've seen this being discussed from time to time and we've rarely seen any official figures. Well, I discovered a current Yamaha upright piano brochure describing the silent function of their upright pianos and the Yamaha CFX binaural is listed as 256MB (which includes also a few other voices but AFAIK doesn't contain any other piano samples, just the binaural CFX for usage with headphones since it's an acoustic piano after all):
Yamaha Upright Brochure

They still ship the older CFIIIS sample in the lesser models and it's listed as 32MB.

256MB is a laughable amount of memory nowadays but OTOH it may use lossless compression. For instance Garritan CFX Lite is 2GB and utilizes compression.

I think though that 256MB is comparable with the sort of sample size Nord use in their Nord Grand.
I imagine CyberGene that this is a compressed file too, so uncompressed, it might be much larger.

It's possible these samples are fractally compressed too (in the same way images can be): thus allowing detail to be encoded without loss of sound fidelity.

What's clear to me from my tests is that the CFX on the CLP685 vs CP88 is that: the binaural sampling and VRM is responsible for making the sound nice. The CP88 CFX sample really does suck.


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Doug, yes, comparable with Nord piano sample size and those are often ranked among the best ones in hardware digital pianos, so maybe not that small, especially if some smart compressions is being utilized.


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Good kontakt software pianos start at about about 5GB losslessly compressed (Vintage D, The Grandeur) so 256MB is small even for compressed. I suppose though that without the luxury of unlimited storage the engineers have to be cleverer with the DSP. Still, a high end instrument such as the N1X should have una corda samples.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
They still ship the older CFIIIS sample in the lesser models and it's listed as 32MB.

This is the norm in sub-$1000 digital pianos.

Quote
256MB is a laughable amount of memory nowadays but OTOH it may use lossless compression. For instance Garritan CFX Lite is 2GB and utilizes compression.

It just means, that there is a certain point, where sample size doesn't matter anymore, just as nobody talks about polyphony anymore. That doesn't prevent manufacturers to boast about things, that doesn't cost them any effort, like "unlimited polyphony" for modeled pianos or hundreds of GB of sample sizes, because the customer bears the storage cost and likes huge sample sizes.

As a perfect example for this I bought a 1000 page computer book during the 1990s, which featured a digital copy of itself on a bundled CD-ROM. This compressed HTML archive (predecessor format to CHM) was over 400 MB in size to justify using a CD-ROM. After tools for unpacking became available years later, it turned out that the book itself including illustrations was less than 20 MB in size and the remainder of the CD-ROM was filled with uncompressed 1980s BBS pornography.


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Doug, yes, comparable with Nord piano sample size and those are often ranked among the best ones in hardware digital pianos, so maybe not that small, especially if some smart compressions is being utilized.

I'm suggesting that the base sample itself is not what's making Nord and Yamaha sound so good, but what they do with their resonance modelling coupled with this Yamaha binaural effect.
The base 256 MB sample (curious from a computer perspective that it's that number) in the CP88 is for me, not gratifying.


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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by CyberGene
They still ship the older CFIIIS sample in the lesser models and it's listed as 32MB.
This is the norm in sub-$1000 digital pianos.

But still such a ridiculous shame. Yamaha Clavinova CLP-990 had 80.4 MB just for the Grand Piano sound. Yes, that was the top model, but that was 20 (!!!) years ago.

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Like others
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Doug, yes, comparable with Nord piano sample size and those are often ranked among the best ones in hardware digital pianos, so maybe not that small, especially if some smart compressions is being utilized.

You´re absolute right !

Nord have the best/realistic sample in the DP category, and they win by a expressive margin.

Back in the day, they had Nord Electro 2 sound module.
I imagine if they came up with new a Nord Piano/Sample module.

That would be a perfect combo to every DP.

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The Kurzweil K250 used 512K of ROM for its piano. It remained legendary for many years.

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I assumed small sample size was driven by the digital piano firms' amortization of reliable old designs & parts. So not able to leverage cheap NAND flash memory used in our phones and laptops.

I remember this being a helpful reference:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2746707/how-much-sample-memory-is-in-there.html

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Originally Posted by 9190
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by CyberGene
They still ship the older CFIIIS sample in the lesser models and it's listed as 32MB.
This is the norm in sub-$1000 digital pianos.

But still such a ridiculous shame. Yamaha Clavinova CLP-990 had 80.4 MB just for the Grand Piano sound. Yes, that was the top model, but that was 20 (!!!) years ago.

Well, this is definitely the age of companies giving us the bare minimum for the absolute maximum they can charge us, so I'm not surprised.


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