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#2956056 03/10/20 12:24 PM
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We watched a TV show on Nova (Mysteries of Sleep). It discussed why virtually every living animal sleeps, what happens during sleep, why we sleep and what sleep does for us.

https://www.pbs.org/video/mysteries-of-sleep-yf3uf4/

At one point they did tests with 2-year old toddlers. It was a recognition and memory test where they introduced the children to several objects with nonsensical names They found that if the child napped right after their introduction to the objects they had a retention rate of 80% while those who did not nap had retention rates of 30%.

So the question is, should we take a nap after practicing? Will we learn better that way? Does anyone have experience with this?

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I think this is an excellent idea.

Sleep appears to help us consolidate things we have learned. That may be why cramming before an exam is much less efficient and yields poorer results than spreading that same amount of time and effort over multiple days and allowing for sleep to help the leaning process.

It’s also makes sense that it is easier to learn and retain skills when the mind and body are refreshed, as opposed to being tired.

That’s been my experience.


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It’s also makes sense that it is easier to learn and retain skills when the mind and body are refreshed, as opposed to being tired.

So it might be better to practice during the day and then take a nap rather than practice just before bedtime? I agree.

Does anyone have actual experience that indicates this is all true?

Last edited by ee375; 03/10/20 12:59 PM.
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My brother sent me this the other day when I mentioned that it's always cool to wake up and see how much better I am each day after sleeping:

https://youtu.be/pwaWilO_Pig?t=1703

(from about 29 minutes - about 33 minutes)

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I fully confirm this. If I have a chance to take a nap one hour after memorizing a piece, it is memorized better both on muscle-memory level and on analytical level. But strangely if I take a nap right after memorizing I sleep badly and I don't feel well after waking up, so for me a one hour interval is required.

Rachmaninoff used to wake up early in the morning, practice or compose for several hours, then he used to take a nap and only then he began his day at around 11 am, he had a breakfast and the second session. He used to say that he has two mornings every day and it allowed him to be very productive.

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Chuan Chang in his book "Fundamentals of Piano Practice" said the following:

[img]https://link.shutterfly.com/3fkii7LkK4[/img]

[img]https://link.shutterfly.com/CMNAbFOkK4[/img]

PPI is defined in the second paragraph as "Post Practice Improvement".

Some of Chang's theories are considered to be controversial by some. But in this case he might be correct.

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I'm an older person so I've had personal experience. If you are very young, you may not have tried this. Those of us who have had to take exams in college, some of us grad school, or give a speech at work, or need creative ideas, problem solving. Basically anything you are trying to learn or create, you may experience a change after you've taken a nap. You retain what you read better if you go over it right before sleep (I always did that before exams in college and that was 35 years ago, back then the memory-sleep effect was already known but we didn't have internet. I probably read it in a print magazine).

Piano is only one of many things that we learn. Just like many other activities, there are many components: intellectual, emotional, physical, there's understanding, memorization, expression, inspiration. When you work at something, anything, you learn how you work. That's the best way.

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I visit relatives overseas regularly. There is always the problem of time changes. Taking a nap at 2 in the afternoon and playing music at 3am isn’t uncommon after a long trip. Your clocks at home are set to the local time while your body is still in another country. An afternoon nap in 1 country is already bedtime in another.

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If people could take naps during the workday, they would be a lot more productive. Where is the nappy room? sleep sleep


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Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
I visit relatives overseas regularly. There is always the problem of time changes. Taking a nap at 2 in the afternoon and playing music at 3am isn’t uncommon after a long trip. Your clocks at home are set to the local time while your body is still in another country. An afternoon nap in 1 country is already bedtime in another.

I do large amount of travel, including to the Far East. I've always just switched my schedule over in one day by just staying up and going to bed with locals. This is harder when flying east than west, as when flying east, the day is shortened and one just isn't tired enough to go to bed early, so often times, if I am flying more than 3 hours to the east, which means from US to Europe, I will just skip the shortened day and go to bed with locals the next day.

I've travelled with people (like my wife) who don't use my method of adjusting and seen how they suffer, with many days of jet lag. I can honestly say with my method, I've only had jet lag once in my life, and that was one time that I didn't follow my prescription and tried to go to bed early when I flew west, and consequently woke at 2am unable to go back to sleep, screwing up one more day until I did my trick of always going to bed with the locals. After, that, never again. I will always go to bed with the locals. Because I can't stand the feeling of jet lag.


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I heard it really does work to practice right before bed too and it is even more effective if you practice right away upon waking too. I have a hard time practicing upon waking so maybe a nap is an effective way to do that. I should at least try to practice something hard right before bed. I don’t really get to take naps.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I will always go to bed with the locals.


Your wife is good with this? grin


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Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
If people could take naps during the workday, they would be a lot more productive. Where is the nappy room? sleep sleep


Be careful, very careful, what you wish for!! In some countries, "nappy" has a very different meaning than the one you are referring to.

Cheers!


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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
If people could take naps during the workday, they would be a lot more productive. Where is the nappy room? sleep sleep


Be careful, very careful, what you wish for!! In some countries, "nappy" has a very different meaning than the one you are referring to.

Cheers!


I believe he means the "Diaper Room"...... whistle


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Haha, that's funny. I'd nap there too during the day if I could smile


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Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
If people could take naps during the workday, they would be a lot more productive. Where is the nappy room? sleep sleep


That's siesta. I take it you don't live in Spain.

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I get up in he middle o' the night often, get a brew, tea, coffee, play the piano and go back to sleep. I quite enjoy doing this and am a little disappointed if I sleep through. . .
During the day, I get tired. I eithr ride my bike or sleep.
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I think there are a hundred other factors that could affect the productivity of a practice session besides the one discussed on this thread. So even if "sleep after practice" idea is true, it may be of minor or no significance.

For example, how one practices is, for most people, probably more important than when one practices.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 03/10/20 06:46 PM.
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think there are a hundred other factors that could affect the productivity of a practice session besides the one discussed on this thread. So even if "sleep after practice" idea is true, it may be of minor or no significance.

For example, how one practices is, for most people, probably more important than when one practices.


Of course, how you practice is critical, but the bullet proof musician reviews controlled studies that demonstrate the effect of sleep on learning music

Bullet proof musician in sleep effect

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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think there are a hundred other factors that could affect the productivity of a practice session besides the one discussed on this thread. So even if "sleep after practice" idea is true, it may be of minor or no significance.

For example, how one practices is, for most people, probably more important than when one practices.


Of course, how you practice is critical, but the bullet proof musician reviews controlled studies that demonstrate the effect of sleep on learning music

Bullet proof musician in sleep effect
But I don't think they say the sleep must be directly after practicing to be beneficial which is what this thread is about.

Even if they did, I think this is impractical for most people unless one likes to practice right before going to bed. And how many people would want to nap after piano practice even if they had the luxury of being able to do so?

Last edited by pianoloverus; 03/10/20 08:12 PM.
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