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rio197 #2933040 01/12/20 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rio197
I'm a solo gig-ger who plays underscore accompaniment for improvised plays and sometimes I have a new musical idea in the moment. I have the occasional need to execute my ideas quickly, even at home practicing.

Then the SV2 is definitely the wrong board for you. (As was the SV1, which had almost no split/layer functionality, but they sold lots of anyway.) Not every board is good for every application.

But what's specifically demanding in your scenario is not merely being able to configure splits and layers directly from the board, but to be able to do it in the moment, while playing/improvising. That's actually something very few boards are good at. I've run into this myself, where I've decided in the moment that I want to change my right hand sound, while continuing to play my left hand sound, and it is cumbersome (or perhaps even impossible) on most boards, at least if you don't want your left hand sound to cut out while you're making the change. Some boards can do it pretty well, though. If you want this kind of functionality, here are some hammer action boards to look at:

Kurzweil: PC4 and possibly SP6

Roland: Juno DS (which is better for this than the higher end FA)

Yamaha: MODX/Montage

Korg: I don't think any of their boards are particularly good for this, though Grandstage might be the best. Their arrangers are actually good for this, but they don't currently make a hammer action arranger.

Casio: PX560 is best for this, PX360 is okay but not as good, because it isn't as flexible in letting you group your most needed sounds together. The other Privias aren't good for this at all.

Abdol #2933043 01/12/20 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Abdol
Nord's approach is very different. It has only one keyboard in each category, each of which designed for specific usage.

Not really. The Nord Stage 3 is a superset of the Nord Electro 6. The Nord Piano has a different feature set, but all of its sounds are also in both the Stage and the Electro.

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Abdol
Nord's approach is very different. It has only one keyboard in each category, each of which designed for specific usage.

Not really. The Nord Stage 3 is a superset of the Nord Electro 6. The Nord Piano has a different feature set, but all of its sounds are also in both the Stage and the Electro.


Nord is refactored as I said and you just mentioned. It is categorized into subsets and supersets. Yamaha is categorized into chaos.

You can get the Nord Stage and you will have everything. But does it apply to Yamaha, Korg or Roland? Korg has Kronos which is a powerful synth and will keep you satisfied in majority of departments, but this is not true for Yamaha.

None of these companies give you the choice of having a concrete instrument that has it all.

Last edited by Abdol; 01/12/20 07:23 PM.

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Great write up, A/Scott.
By the way, I read in the SV-2 specs that it runs on EDS-X.

Abdol #2933304 01/13/20 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Abdol
You can get the Nord Stage and you will have everything. But does it apply to Yamaha, Korg or Roland? Korg has Kronos which is a powerful synth and will keep you satisfied in majority of departments, but this is not true for Yamaha.

None of these companies give you the choice of having a concrete instrument that has it all.

Yamaha is a big company, and they have keyboards in different divisions, which is a bit different from Nord, a small company with relatively few products or distinct markets. But in the gigging musician market (where Yamaha competes with Nord), Montage includes almost everything from the lower end and previous sample-based or FM-based Yamahas. But Yamaha does have other markets where Nord doesn't really compete... They maintain a separate Arranger line, which overlaps somewhat, but is really distinct from the main line. And they have a piano-with-speakers line which goes from the P series up to the Avant Grands.

You're right about Roland, though. We'll see if they address that with sufficient additions to the expandable Fantom platform.

Kurzweil Forte includes all the sounds of the lesser and older Kurzweils, so I guess that's another company you'd look at the same way you see Nord.

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Abdol
You can get the Nord Stage and you will have everything. But does it apply to Yamaha, Korg or Roland? Korg has Kronos which is a powerful synth and will keep you satisfied in majority of departments, but this is not true for Yamaha.

None of these companies give you the choice of having a concrete instrument that has it all.

Yamaha is a big company, and they have keyboards in different divisions, which is a bit different from Nord, a small company with relatively few products or distinct markets. But in the gigging musician market (where Yamaha competes with Nord), Montage includes almost everything from the lower end and previous sample-based or FM-based Yamahas. But Yamaha does have other markets where Nord doesn't really compete... They maintain a separate Arranger line, which overlaps somewhat, but is really distinct from the main line. And they have a piano-with-speakers line which goes from the P series up to the Avant Grands.

You're right about Roland, though. We'll see if they address that with sufficient additions to the expandable Fantom platform.

Kurzweil Forte includes all the sounds of the lesser and older Kurzweils, so I guess that's another company you'd look at the same way you see Nord.


Kronos is just an exception and the reason is because of the idea behind it.

Yamaha really doesn't have any alternatives, everything in Montage is sample-based + FM. It is impossible to get the piano sound of P-515 in Montage. It is impossible to get the engine of YC61 in Montage. It is impossible to have virtual analog sounds in Montage.

It is not that Yamaha can't do it, etc. Yamaha intentionally doesn't want to do it. It is Yamaha's way of doing business and designing products. It wants to force you to buy junks you don't need them.

In CVP-809GP, we have the P-515 engine embedded! We also have SuperArticulation2 technology as well as AWM2.


Maybe I am missing something, but If you know a product from Yamaha that has VA, FM and drawbar organs, (factor out the SA2 as I don't really care about it) let me know. Why would one want to own CP88 and YC61 at the same time?

I am currently thinking of buying an analog synth because Kronos doesn't give me what I want and Yamaha and Roland don't really have a product that gives me: Organs, VA, decent Piano and maybe some FM.


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Abdol #2933422 01/13/20 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Abdol
It is impossible to get the engine of YC61 in Montage. It is impossible to have virtual analog sounds in Montage...Maybe I am missing something, but If you know a product from Yamaha that has VA, FM and drawbar organs, (factor out the SA2 as I don't really care about it) let me know.

Yamaha is barely in the VA market these days... I think all they have is the reface CS. Up until this week, I would have said they're barely in the organ market, either. So maybe we'll see more activity there in the future. But you can't really knock Montage for not having the YC61 organ engine, which did not exist when the made the Montage.

Originally Posted by Abdol
I am currently thinking of buying an analog synth because Kronos doesn't give me what I want and Yamaha and Roland don't really have a product that gives me: Organs, VA, decent Piano and maybe some FM.

For a non-Korg multi-function board of that type... Kurzweil PC4? Or if you're okay doing most editing from an iPad or computer, you could look at Roland VR-730/VR09, Kurzweil SP6/Artis 7. And of course there is the Nord Stage 3.

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Bonners released a new video about this

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Originally Posted by anotherscott

[...]
Then the SV2 is definitely the wrong board for you. (As was the SV1, which had almost no split/layer functionality, but they sold lots of anyway.) Not every board is good for every application.
[...]
Kurzweil: PC4 and possibly SP6

Roland: Juno DS (which is better for this than the higher end FA)

Yamaha: MODX/Montage

Korg: I don't think any of their boards are particularly good for this, though Grandstage might be the best. Their arrangers are actually good for this, but they don't currently make a hammer action arranger.

Casio: PX560 is best for this, PX360 is okay but not as good, because it isn't as flexible in letting you group your most needed sounds together. The other Privias aren't good for this at all.


Cool pointers, thanks. I see the point of Roland Juno DS's buttons approach over Korg's multi-page navigation when it comes to making a quick split/layer.


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rio197 #2933504 01/13/20 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rio197
I see the point of Roland Juno DS's buttons approach over Korg's multi-page navigation when it comes to making a quick split/layer.

Yup. Also, for a simple 2-part split/layer, the DS automatically gives you volume sliders for each part. It's also very easy to quickly transpose just one side of the split up or down an octave while leaving the other side untouched, which is a handy facility for spontaneous splits that a lot of boards have trouble with (a weakness of the Montage/MODX). And the DS also lets you change one sound of the split/layer without glitching the other sound you're playing, or switch from one sound to the next without the held/decaying notes of the first sound getting cut off when you make the switch (though the transition may be imperfect depending on the effects in use). It is one of the stronger boards for people who do on-the-fly splits, layers, and transitions.

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I want a piano that has the best piano feel I can get and the best sound under $2500. Any informant fellas?

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Originally Posted by James Padgett
I want a piano that has the best piano feel I can get and the best sound under $2500. Any informant fellas?


Hi James,

By all means post a question (we try not to address multiple issues on one thread).
When you do post, please add budget and purpose information eg., home or live use, cabinet or portable etc.

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
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Doug M. #2934154 01/15/20 09:47 AM
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Is the SV2 SP more of a synthesizer rather than a piano?

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Originally Posted by James Padgett
Is the SV2 SP more of a synthesizer rather than a piano?


What would leave you that impression? Every single description and video shows it as a digital piano.


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Originally Posted by James Padgett
Is the SV2 SP more of a synthesizer rather than a piano?

Nah, it's in the stage piano category. People can define "synthesizer" differently, but with no pitch or modulation wheels or filter or envelope controls, SV2 is pretty far from what most people would be thinking of if they wanted to buy a synthesizer.

As for best feel and sound under $2500, yeah, some more parameters would be helpful (and it will still be subjective). How portable does it need to be? Does it need built in speakers? Do you care about any sounds besides piano? To get this back on topic, for piano alone, I doubt the SV2 will be a common first choice, though being improved in that regard from the SV1 it is replacing. Korg still doesn't have a reputation for the very best in piano action or sound (though the Kronos-derived piano does have its fans). SV unique strengths come from its numerous accessible front panel real-time effects controls and the tube, which are especially useful on EP and other non acoustic piano sounds. For piano alone, Yamaha, Kawai, and Roland are probably more common choices for best under $2500.

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Any news on the SV-2 bottom?
Particle board as underneath the SV-1?

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I am looking for a second DP for the appartment during the weekend, to complement my MP11SE I have at my house, and was thinking along the lines of a PX-S1000, and then sell both the Kawai and Casio and get a cabinet piano when I move into the appartment for good in a couple of years.

But the more I watch videos of the SV2, the more I’m falling in love with it. The SV2S 88 looks incredibly cool and would actually fit my ‘decor’ just as well as a cabinet piano would (my furniture is a mix & match of modern Ikea and seventies retro style), using Korg’s SV1 stand. I mostly play piano, classical but also Elton John and Billy Joël, and other modern piano music (and some EP occasionally).
I play classical, yes, and the RH3 keybed in the SV2 is not triple sensor and has no escapement, but I’m not THAT advanced a player (I’m quite good, but haven’t been able to master Fantasie Impromptu yet smile ) ; I haven't played the SV1, but I have played the Grandstage and D1, and I really like the RH3 as it didn't limit my playing style in any way (felt somewhat better on the Grandstage but that depends on how they implement the RH3, and Jacob Dupre claims that the keybed in the SV2 matches the sounds perfectly) ; also, I wouldn’t really miss the soft and sostenuto pedals since half damping is really all I’m using, to be honest.

Difficult decision, or not really. In any case, when the time comes, I will want a piano with built-in speakers, so either a cabinet piano, or a cool looking stage piano with built-in speakers, like the SV2. There are plenty of those, but none have the looks of the SV2. Love the MP11SE, but the external monitors (and all the wiring) ruin the look. Imagine that, an MP11SE with built-in speakers and a dedicated stand… You listening, Kawai ?

Most of you may think it’s silly to buy a stage piano as a ‘permanent’ piece of furniture, but for me personally, Korg have released the perfect ‘stage’ piano for the home ; there seems to be a trend forming here, as Roland have the RD88, Dexibell the Vivo S7 Pro M, and there will be others, mark my words. But none look as good as the SV2 (yet).
Only thing I’d need to make sure of, is the quality of the built-in speakers. The SV2 should be in stores in February, I’m dying to try one, for the speakers but also to make sure the keybed does actually match the sounds, as Sweetwater claims.
I’d be buying with my heart, I guess. Love the MP11SE, no stage piano with a better action, but Korg’s RH3 is certainly no slouch, on the contrary.

I’ll be reluctant to sell the MP11SE in a couple of years, though, since it’s just a cracking DP. If it had built-in speakers, the choice would be extremely difficult to make, since in its own way, the MP11SE looks equally cool in the home. Who knows, if Kawai decides to release a successor to the MP11SE, they might put quality speakers in as well. And then, I’d be back at square one wink


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Fleer, no particle board on either. I had an SV-1 73 key it was a solid little beast. I only sold it to get an FA-08 which had more sounds and the SV1 would run out of polyphony sometimes when doing things like the intro to "Riders on the Storm", in the SV2 they increased it to 128 from 80. I regretted selling it.


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Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano
Love the MP11SE, but the external monitors (and all the wiring) ruin the look.

I wonder if a pair of IK Multimedia iLoud speakers lying on top of the Kawai (i.e. facing up) might give you an acceptable compromise between sound and aesthetics. (Keep in mind that the SV2 speakers face up, and may well be no better--or even lesser--quality than the iLouds.)

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano
Love the MP11SE, but the external monitors (and all the wiring) ruin the look.

I wonder if a pair of IK Multimedia iLoud speakers lying on top of the Kawai (i.e. facing up) might give you an acceptable compromise between sound and aesthetics. (Keep in mind that the SV2 speakers face up, and may well be no better--or even lesser--quality than the iLouds.)


It's an option : a couple of iLoud MTM placed horizontally on top of the MP11SE, and then using the shortest audio cables I can find to keep them from dangling in the back. Still, with the MTM, I'd have two extra power cables (one per speaker) plus the one already coming from the MP11SE...

In any case, I'd have to go and try out the SV2S 88 for myself in a store somewhere, so that's at least a couple of weeks away until stock starts pouring in. Very curious, though, about the SV2. Excited, too wink


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