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#2937306 01/22/20 09:11 PM
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I posted before about my Roland hp600. Having used it for about 4 months now, I am no more satisfied with it than I was before. In fact, I dislike it even more.
I don’t think it feels anything like an acoustic keyboard. Despite the fact that people on this forum think that the keys are not heavy, I find that my fingers get fatigued relatively quickly. For pieces with a lot of chords, it’s not bad but for other pieces, especially where playing softly is required or playing a lot of articulated notes is involved, it’s awful. I am just not comfortable playing on this keyboard. I think if I’d had even a couple of lessons prior to buying this piano, I would have gotten something else.

Mils #2937308 01/22/20 09:20 PM
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Hmm, I haven’t heard about HP-600 model. Maybe 603 or 605?


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Mils #2937311 01/22/20 09:29 PM
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A google search shows that the Roland HP600 is a stage piano (or possibly a synthesizer?) from 2012. There are a few of them for sale on ebay and such.


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603. I realized the mistake but it was too late to edit.

Last edited by Mils; 01/22/20 09:39 PM.
Mils #2937365 01/23/20 01:15 AM
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Kawai is the answer.


Jazz piano Instructor. Technical Editor for Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book". Studied with Mark Levine, Art Lande & Mark Isham (1981-1990). Also: Barry Harris & Monty Alexander (1993-present).
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Originally Posted by rintincop
Kawai is the answer.


No. Its snot . . .
I'd rather pick my nose . . . than pick a . .. smile

Last edited by peterws; 01/23/20 02:53 AM.

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Mils #2937385 01/23/20 03:20 AM
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I was never happy with any of my DPs from the past life until I got Kawai Novus NV10. I would suggest you look into that one or the Yamaha AvantGrand N1X.

I was *almost* happy with Cawai CA67 - so the current CA99/79 are also worth checking out.

Osho


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Current VST favorites (in the order of preference): Pianoteq 7/VSL Synchron Concert D//Garritan CFX/Embertone Walker D Full

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Mils #2937390 01/23/20 03:32 AM
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It happens. The DP may just not be the one for you, unless it is defective. Time to sell it, and buy something else. This time test play your potential purchase, several times in a store before choosing.

Mils #2937399 01/23/20 04:03 AM
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Try the Roland LX706, Casio GP-310, and Kawai CA99 (when it's available next month).

These three all have lighter key actions than your Roland 603.

Last edited by Burkie; 01/23/20 04:05 AM.

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Mils #2937407 01/23/20 04:38 AM
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These last weeks I came back to my Roland HP-507 and surprisingly, I am happy with it.
I play also on some VST (Raenscroft, Vintage D, Grande, Pianoteq, Garritan CFX), but at the end, the DP gives a global experience that surpasses all the VST. In fact, these VST don't give me any pianistic advantage over the DP, except that their sound is better.
At least for me, who play the DP only with headphones, I tend to come to my Roland again. Easy, rapid with no problems at all.

Mils #2937409 01/23/20 05:04 AM
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Sorry, I can't edit and correct my post

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I well remember the 507. The key action was lovely, rather hard bottoming but I quite liked that. In those days, when I'd just joined this forum, it sounded to me, indistinguishable from a decent grand. What went wrong with the later models?


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Mils #2937427 01/23/20 06:14 AM
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I have to say that I have an heavy keyboard too. It's a Kawai RHIII action (the DP is a CN37), so it's supposed to be not much heavy (from the reviews) or at least lighter than many Yamaha DPs, but instead I found it's very heavy, and after I made some measurements and compared with other DP actions, the measurements confirmed my impressions: the downweight of my keys is slightly greater than that of a Yamaha P515 (that many here say has a very heavy action).
My DP is in a room where in some months of the year (like now) there are high levels of humidity, so this could be the case for its heaviness, or maybe it's just a random factor in the manufacturing process that made my particular unit as it is.

But... I'm a beginner at piano, so, this heaviness forces me to spontaneously look for techniques that put less effort on my fingers: more arm work, more wrist rotation work, etc... So I think this could be a good thing for a beginner.

Anyway, when recently I tried the action of a low-end slab DP (Yamaha P125) I was very surprised from the lightness of its keyboard action and I noticed I was able to play fast trills with less effort (sometimes on my RHIII action I miss a note of the trill because I not apply enough force... This never happened on the P125).

But I'm sure even in the acoustic pianos there are models with a fast light action and other models very heavy. So, what I can say is that if you already are a good pianist and prefer a light action, go find a keyboard that better suits your needs. You could be positively surprised from cheap low-end products, like the ES110, the P125, etc., and if you use a good piano VST with them IMHO you could get a very nice experience. In the cabinet-style DPs world, I think the so called "hybrid" models have the best action, and from measurements they are not much heavy (for sure they are lighter than my DP action). But of course they are much more expensive...

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Originally Posted by peterws
What went wrong with the later models?


I didn't play the models after the 507, so I can't comment on the action, but for the sound, it seems that the old Supernatural was better than their newer modeled technology. Even on the last Roland DP, there is something wrong with the sound.
It's a pitty because, the sampled Supernatural was perfect on the playability and pedaling. It had in fact all the advantages of the sampling without any limitation on the playing experience.

Last edited by stamkorg; 01/23/20 06:22 AM.
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Originally Posted by magicpiano

Anyway, when recently I tried the action of a low-end slab DP (Yamaha P125) I was very surprised from the lightness of its keyboard action and I noticed I was able to play fast trills with less effort (sometimes on my RHIII action I miss a note of the trill because I not apply enough force... This never happened on the P125).
...

Some of us might've been hoping for a revamped GHS to make an appearance. With a longer pivot. So easy to do, but they won't will they? Funny thing was it didn't deel all that light during the time I had one . . . . ..


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Originally Posted by magicpiano
But I'm sure even in the acoustic pianos there are models with a fast light action and other models very heavy.

Yup, my teacher has 2 Grands standing next to each other. One is slightly lighter in touch than my VPC1 (what isn't lol) but the other one is... well... I'm sure I could play it by breathing on the keys alone. The difference between the two is rather ridiculous.

As for the OP: I know how it feels when the action is heavier than one might like, esp from a beginners PoV. You can't just hammer out the tunes, it forces you to think about how you play or it immediately punishes you with pain and fatigue.

Dare I say it though: the problem isn't the DP (assuming nothing is defective). It's your (and my) technique.
Blaming the equipment for sth. we are supposed to overcome by learning correct posture is pointless and running to an unrealistically light action for help would probably do more harm than good.

If you have a teacher, discuss the matter with him/her and if possible let the teacher play your DP.

Last edited by Granyala; 01/23/20 12:09 PM.

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If the school is having students play on acoustic pianos that feel a certain way, then I don’t necessarily think that adjusting my playing to my dp, that feels too heavy, is the answer. That is, I don’t feel that the acoustic I play in lessons in substantially lighter and it isn’t just the weight that bothers me on my piano. The way the keys actually function is problematic, the texture of the keys, everything. I mentioned before that it feels like there is too much movement in the keys that does not produce sound-more than on other pianos and if you happen to hit the key a certain way, you get nothing. Trying to play p or pp is extremely difficult on this dp. Staccato is also more sidficult to execute than it should be. They keys just feel aluggish and not crisp.
I also think it’s the reverse. An experienced player knows how to adjust to different keyboards-lighter, heavier, because he has the control and technique to do so. A beginner could end up developing poor technique trying to compensate for the way the keyboard feels. Trying to push yourself on a keyboard that causes too much fatigue can only result in injury.
I played on a Yamaha digital grand or baby grand and it felt much better to me also. This piano just didn’t feel comfortable from the start, much like my first teacher.
This is not the best analogy but sometimes you try on a pair of shoes and immediately feel that they don’t fit but you think, “maybe they’ll break in,” because they are the size you usually wear. Then, you wear them for a while and realize that your very first impression was right. They don’t fit properly. Wearing uncomfortable shoes only gets worse not better.
I need to be able to practice for more than a half hour without getting fatigued. The action on this keyboard is just not right for me.

Last edited by Mils; 01/23/20 12:28 PM.
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Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by rintincop
Kawai is the answer.


No. Its snot . . .
I'd rather pick my nose . . . than pick a . .. smile


You are SO funny. I’m going to remember this one, lol.



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Mils #2937562 01/23/20 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mils
The action on this keyboard is just not right for me.


There you go.

You have determined that.

So, the question now is ….. What are you going to do about it ?

As you know …. coming to this forum to complain, did not change anything. It still is not right for you.

So, what now ?


Don

Kawai MP7SE, Pianoteq, FocusRite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface, Yamaha MG06 Mixer
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Mils #2937563 01/23/20 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mils
603. I realized the mistake but it was too late to edit.

The Roland HP603 uses the PHA-50 action. Have you tried adjusting the 'Key Touch' and 'Hammer Response' settings to see if you like it any better?


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