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Originally Posted by j&j
I can only speak for myself but why would I want a used piano with a non functioning player system installed? It’s not like there’s any serious shortage of used pianos available that don’t have inoperable equipment attached.


In the case of the DYUS1, it could be more desirable than a DU1, or U1, that’s one reason. So, it would be competing with YUS1s, and if the price were a little lower than other YUS1s, it would sell.

There is a market for everything. At the right price, everything sells.

I worked for the guy who built eBay. He told me that the first thing that sold on eBay was a broken toner cartridge for some copier. The eBay employees looked at each other, and thought, oh, wow, this is a gold mine!

Last edited by LarryK; 12/25/19 01:36 PM.
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Originally Posted by j&j
I can only speak for myself but why would I want a used piano with a non functioning player system installed? It’s not like there’s any serious shortage of used pianos available that don’t have inoperable equipment attached.

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Our Yamaha S400E is 27 years old. We bought it new and ordered it with a Disklavier system, so we could record on it. This was before the Disklavier Pro came out. Our Disklavier system uses the old 3.5 discs. and works fine both recording and playing back prerecorded discs. However, the vast majority of time we use it just to play. The Disklavier system had to be specially ordered and was built into the piano in Japan when the piano was constructed. It is completely passive when turned off, so there is no effect on the playing or sound of the piano. The S400E is pretty rare and has been superceded by the CF series. An S400E with a Disklavier is even rarer, since it had to be built by special order.


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Originally Posted by astrotoy
Our Yamaha S400E is 27 years old. We bought it new and ordered it with a Disklavier system, so we could record on it. This was before the Disklavier Pro came out. Our Disklavier system uses the old 3.5 discs. and works fine both recording and playing back prerecorded discs. However, the vast majority of time we use it just to play. The Disklavier system had to be specially ordered and was built into the piano in Japan when the piano was constructed. It is completely passive when turned off, so there is no effect on the playing or sound of the piano. The S400E is pretty rare and has been superceded by the CF series. An S400E with a Disklavier is even rarer, since it had to be built by special order.


That’s terrific! The fact that we’ve moved away from physical media makes it even more likely that the system can last for decades. My DAC will last decades without repair, most likely, while the CD player I have from Accuphase has had to be repaired once. The solenoids are an issue, as a moving part, but I can’t believe they’re that difficult to repair or replace. One can always scavenge non-working Disklaviers.

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The weak link in these systems isn't the solenoids and low-level control hardware but rather the user interface and media... cassette tapes in the case of the 1970s Marantz Pianocorder, 3.5" floppy disks in the case of 1980s-1990s QRS, PianoDisc and Disklavier systems, CDs in the early 2000s. The floppy and CD-based systems can be controlled with wireline MIDI, and systems that accept a streaming audio format like Pianocorder and LX/Spirio can accept that signal from any reasonably high-quality audio source, past, present or future. Even if Steinway abandons their iPad app, if someone has preserved recordings of the streams, they could be played 100 years from now if the player system still works. The Bluetooth link on those instruments is easily bypassed; you can connect any line-level audio source to standard RCA audio input jacks.

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Originally Posted by Mark Fontana
The weak link in these systems isn't the solenoids and low-level control hardware but rather the user interface and media... cassette tapes in the case of the 1970s Marantz Pianocorder, 3.5" floppy disks in the case of 1980s-1990s QRS, PianoDisc and Disklavier systems, CDs in the early 2000s. The floppy and CD-based systems can be controlled with wireline MIDI, and systems that accept a streaming audio format like Pianocorder and LX/Spirio can accept that signal from any reasonably high-quality audio source, past, present or future. Even if Steinway abandons their iPad app, if someone has preserved recordings of the streams, they could be played 100 years from now if the player system still works. The Bluetooth link on those instruments is easily bypassed; you can connect any line-level audio source to standard RCA audio input jacks.


I agree that the physical media is the weak link. Have we bypassed that problem with the USB interface to the control units? Yamaha’s PianoSoft no longer sells physical disks, although they refer you to Hal Leonard if you want a disk. I certainly would not miss the 3.5” disks I used in my old Mark II. They were slow. Hopefully, USB flash drives stick around for a while, as they’re what the Disklavier records to, as far as I can tell. Of course, USB might give way to USB-C but there are a lot of USB devices in the world.

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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by j&j
I can only speak for myself but why would I want a used piano with a non functioning player system installed? It’s not like there’s any serious shortage of used pianos available that don’t have inoperable equipment attached.

thumb

Imagine buying a used Yamaha piano with a broken silent system ? No doubt you can buy
it ,and pay for a technician to remove it ? Just get a regular accoustic piano --far easier !

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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by j&j
I can only speak for myself but why would I want a used piano with a non functioning player system installed? It’s not like there’s any serious shortage of used pianos available that don’t have inoperable equipment attached.

thumb

Imagine buying a used Yamaha piano with a broken silent system ? No doubt you can buy
it ,and pay for a technician to remove it ? Just get a regular accoustic piano --far easier !


I’m not sure you have to bother to remove it.

I want the twenty plus years of recording and playback. smile

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Yes it does sound as though you will enjoy having it !
I can see the obvious joy of getting it.I am just being
my usual "stick in the mud self"

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I'm kind of a fish out of water twice over in this thread. First, I'm not terribly interested in the player systems myself, and, second, I tend not to watch youtubers very much. I did watch the previously linked video about this young lady being loaned a Stineway™, and it struck me very oddly when she said, "which one am I getting?" It seems odd to enter an agreement without knowing the details of remuneration, but I figured the "episode" was put together after it was all sorted out. Anyway, she must be okay with the terms of the arrangement, but after reading the above I'm left with the impression that she's been loaned the old obsolete model, but going to the company facilities to demonstrate the newer models. Is that correct?


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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
I'm kind of a fish out of water twice over in this thread. First, I'm not terribly interested in the player systems myself, and, second, I tend not to watch youtubers very much. I did watch the previously linked video about this young lady being loaned a Stineway™, and it struck me very oddly when she said, "which one am I getting?" It seems odd to enter an agreement without knowing the details of remuneration, but I figured the "episode" was put together after it was all sorted out. Anyway, she must be okay with the terms of the arrangement, but after reading the above I'm left with the impression that she's been loaned the old obsolete model, but going to the company facilities to demonstrate the newer models. Is that correct?


From what I understand about the Spirio r, for record, is that it is only available on the B and D models, which she feels would be too big for her New York City apartment. She has been loaned an M, which has a playback-only system. She goes to the factory to record herself on one of the r models. She’s an incredible pianist.

As a beginner, I want record AND playback capability, and the Disklavier can give it to me in an upright piano, for a lot less money than the Spirio system.

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Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
I'm kind of a fish out of water twice over in this thread. First, I'm not terribly interested in the player systems myself, and, second, I tend not to watch youtubers very much. I did watch the previously linked video about this young lady being loaned a Stineway™, and it struck me very oddly when she said, "which one am I getting?" It seems odd to enter an agreement without knowing the details of remuneration, but I figured the "episode" was put together after it was all sorted out. Anyway, she must be okay with the terms of the arrangement, but after reading the above I'm left with the impression that she's been loaned the old obsolete model, but going to the company facilities to demonstrate the newer models. Is that correct?


From what I understand about the Spirio r, for record, is that it is only available on the B and D models, which she feels would be too big for her New York City apartment. She has been loaned an M, which has a playback-only system. She goes to the factory to record herself on one of the r models. She’s an incredible pianist.

As a beginner, I want record AND playback capability, and the Disklavier can give it to me in an upright piano, for a lot less money than the Spirio system.


NAMM 2020 is a couple weeks away. Yamaha almost always shows new technology for their instruments, especially in recording and play back. Go to the Yamaha site and tell them you’re interested in Disklavier and you will get updates and relevant articles on Disklavier. You can also do the same for the Yamaha dealers within your area. You can also subscribe to Cunningham Piano which is a Yamaha dealer and has fun and interesting articles that they send out every couple months.
Best wishes!


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Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
I'm kind of a fish out of water twice over in this thread. First, I'm not terribly interested in the player systems myself, and, second, I tend not to watch youtubers very much. I did watch the previously linked video about this young lady being loaned a Stineway™, and it struck me very oddly when she said, "which one am I getting?" It seems odd to enter an agreement without knowing the details of remuneration, but I figured the "episode" was put together after it was all sorted out. Anyway, she must be okay with the terms of the arrangement, but after reading the above I'm left with the impression that she's been loaned the old obsolete model, but going to the company facilities to demonstrate the newer models. Is that correct?


From what I understand about the Spirio r, for record, is that it is only available on the B and D models, which she feels would be too big for her New York City apartment. She has been loaned an M, which has a playback-only system. She goes to the factory to record herself on one of the r models. She’s an incredible pianist.

As a beginner, I want record AND playback capability, and the Disklavier can give it to me in an upright piano, for a lot less money than the Spirio system.


NAMM 2020 is a couple weeks away. Yamaha almost always shows new technology for their instruments, especially in recording and play back. Go to the Yamaha site and tell them you’re interested in Disklavier and you will get updates and relevant articles on Disklavier. You can also do the same for the Yamaha dealers within your area. You can also subscribe to Cunningham Piano which is a Yamaha dealer and has fun and interesting articles that they send out every couple months.
Best wishes!


Thanks! Do you have a link to subscribe?

Here is a press release describing Yamaha’s involvement at NAM 2020:

https://markets.businessinsider.com...cert-events-at-2020-namm-show-1028731646

It looks like Yahoo deleted all content from their Yahoo Groups, and with it, the Disklavier group, at least, I haven’t found the posts yet.

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Hmmm I registered both my Yamahas so they’ve had my email for quite some time. Once they have your email they send you updates forever. I would look at the information on Disklavier with your zip code and it should show you dealers in the area. At that point you can request booklets and more info from Yamaha and the individual dealers.
For Cunningham Piano, just go to their website and view some of the videos and there should be a link to subscribe. I haven’t checked social media but Yamaha piano and Yamaha dealers post there regularly.


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I think I am in love.


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I tried to find a clip on YouTube of Mr. Chetty in The Internship saying, "this is not match.com!" But I couldn't find one.


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In my opinion, the playback for all systems is quite far from the actual performance, I mean far.
It is probably entertaining for some people to have the piano play by itself or record and playback. For recoding purposes is mediocre.


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Originally Posted by Kurtmen
In my opinion, the playback for all systems is quite far from the actual performance, I mean far.
It is probably entertaining for some people to have the piano play by itself or record and playback. For recoding purposes is mediocre.



Have you had a chance to record and play back yourself playing on any of the systems, be they Spirio or Disklavier Pro or Disklavier ST?

I asked Tyrone whether he thought the 1024 levels of velocity would make a difference, vs, 128, and it was his opinion that a person would not be able to hear the difference. Digital pianos have 128 levels of velocity to correspond with the midi spec, don’t they? All of them? There is expanded midi with 256 levels, I believe.

Anyway, can you tell me why you think the playback is so far from the original performance?

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It is just a recording .,ie a reproduction of the performance. Some would be better than others .You
would really need to try the piano with this player system.
Some people have pianos with the silent mode ,yet do not enjoy them.
Perhaps the Yamaha with this recording system will enchant you at first and then it may end up
being a bore.,Perhaps it will live up to its usefulness ?

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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
It is just a recording .,ie a reproduction of the performance. Some would be better than others .You
would really need to try the piano with this player system.
Some people have pianos with the silent mode ,yet do not enjoy them.
Perhaps the Yamaha with this recording system will enchant you at first and then it may end up
being a bore.,Perhaps it will live up to its usefulness ?


Well, it’s not a recording like a recording that is played back through speakers. It is a recording that captures all of the key velocities and pedal movements in time and plays them back on the same instrument on which the recording was made. Solenoids with plungers are used to press the rear part of the key action to cause the hammers to hit the strings, in order to produce the same velocities that the pianist played.

It is nothing like a silent piano, which plays digital samples through a set of headphones based on the key that is pressed. The Disklavier plays back recordings by causing the hammers to hit the strings.

I was hoping that the poster of the criticism could give me more specific information regarding why he feels that the playback systems do not work well.

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