2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
67 members (ando, bobrunyan, brdwyguy, august112, An Old Square, accordeur, ChrisGoesPiano, 36251, anotherscott, 14 invisible), 683 guests, and 407 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 361
T
Tenor1 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 361
It seems there is is a lot of discussion here regarding using available software and additional speaker systems to enhance your DP. Why is that? Even with the high-end Avantgrand models it seems common. Does the software and speakers make it that much better?


Recorder Player/Singer
Back to playing piano
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,961
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,961
Yes in some ways it can bring the experience closer to an acoustic piano.

It’s nice to have built-in sound for the convenience, but almost all digital keyboards/pianos cut costs on the built-in sound system. So you can almost always get better sound from a 3rd party system. Many like studio monitors for their accuracy, others like myself prefer quality powered/PA speakers for the power and wider dispersion of sound.

As for software pianos, better samples and/or updated modeling can bring a lot of performance extras to digital pianos. For example, more nuance in the samples or better responsiveness in the models.

Even with all that I do use the built-in speakers and sounds a lot, but it’s nice to have the extra stuff when needed.


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 361
T
Tenor1 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 361
Thanks Groove On. I enjoy using headphones about 90% of the time to not bother anyone. But I've decided to get a new Bechstein grand MP 192 model. I'm in Berlin and been going to the Bechstein store trying lots of pianos. Although I enjoy the GP 500, it doesn't have the same connection for me as an actual grand piano.


Recorder Player/Singer
Back to playing piano
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,961
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,961
Originally Posted by Tenor1
... Bechstein Grand MP 192 model ... enjoy the GP 500, it doesn't have the same connection for me as an actual grand piano.

Ha! That is the secret sauce. Even with my DP/speaker/ setup, I also own two acoustic uprights and I’m plotting putting a Grand into the living room grin

Originally Posted by Tenor1
... I'm in Berlin and been going to the Bechstein store ...

Now I’m jealous. After the Bechstein and Steinway stores in Berlin, I also always visit the ‘Just Music’ Flagship Store - 5 floors of music goodness and probably the best digital piano/keyboard department I’ve ever seen!


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 481
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 481
I've owned eight digital pianos since the late eighties and they were often in the same room as the acoustic grand that I've had until last year. I really miss being able to sit down at anytime and play a song or two, or ten... I like my MP11se (currently with 4 speakers plus a sub, soon to be 6 plus sub) but just don't play it as much as i did my grand. Somehow I let that one flip of a switch get between me and the music so I can't imagine how much less I'd play if I had to deal with VST. I may take the other 3 keyboards back in my home studio because they could be the source of distraction (too many options at my fingertips at once). So, to answer your question: yes on the speakers (I'm finally pleased with the sound) but no on the software for me.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
You ask two questions ...
Originally Posted by Tenor1
It seems there is is a lot of discussion here regarding using available software and additional speaker systems to enhance your DP. Why is that? Even with the high-end Avantgrand models it seems common. Does the software and speakers make it that much better?
On that question ... yes, it greatly improves the sound. My piano is a POS. It needs help from virtual pianos and a sound system. And it sounds MUCH better.
But I'm hoping to replace it with a piano that will sound good without adding all the paraphernalia.

As to the first (title) question ... do most owners use extras? I'll bet that most do not, but we'll likely never know for sure.

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,034
N
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,034
CA98 soundboard is completely sufficient for me at the moment, sound projection and quality is close to acoustic instrument.

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,545
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,545
Originally Posted by Tenor1
It seems there is is a lot of discussion here regarding using available software and additional speaker systems to enhance your DP. Why is that? Even with the high-end Avantgrand models it seems common.

I think it's a form of sample bias. I do not think that the population of this sub-forum is a proper cross section of all DP users world wide.
More likely, especially people who want to augment their DPs in some way will come here, looking for help, in a higher percentage than the imo much larger majority of people who just take home a DP, plug it into the mains, switch it on and start playing and never look back.
So the impression you get here, that a large section of people use additional speakers and/or VSTis is likely not based in real world reality.


Kawai Novus NV10
My amateur piano recordings on YouTube
Latest Recording: "Prélude (Opus 28, No. 4)" by Frédéric Chopin
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 614
K
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 614
Agreed, it would be like going to a Hot Rod forum and deducing most people install high performance heads on their cars.
Though the person that I was stuck behind this morning that was trying to merge into 70+ mph traffic doing 30 could use it!!!
But I digress...


A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,662
C
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,662
Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
Agreed, it would be like going to a Hot Rod forum and deducing most people install high performance heads on their cars...


Exactly my thoughts.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,551
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,551
Originally Posted by Tenor1
Thanks Groove On. I enjoy using headphones about 90% of the time to not bother anyone. But I've decided to get a new Bechstein grand MP 192 model. I'm in Berlin and been going to the Bechstein store trying lots of pianos. Although I enjoy the GP 500, it doesn't have the same connection for me as an actual grand piano.


Hi Tenor,

One of the reasons behind creating modeled-piano- as contrasted to sampled-piano-sound is that with modeled piano, you can get a much greater degree of dynamic control within the dynamic range of the instrument. Phil Best on YouTube explains this sentiment (he is also on Pianoworld).

The big groan about modeled piano sounds is the tone inaccuracy compared to the multi-gigabyte virtual pianos. For some, this is a bigger deal than others. For me, I noticed that e.g., Pianoteq sounds very metallic during legato playing but this characteristic is less prominent during faster more rhythmically syncopated pieces.

Of all the stage pianos I've tested over the last 10 years, the Roland V-piano has been the most responsive---giving the best connection. This modeled piano is 2009 technology, so has some tonal characteristics and other foibles that some find intolerable.. That said, I played it for an hour down in Bristol and had to pull myself away from the thing due to an appointment. However, this is not a cheap board and only really does one thing well (has very little stage piano functionality). The later Roland's (apart from the LX17) have failed to impress me during testing for various reasons. If you get the chance, maybe test a V-piano in store.

I tested the GP510 two weeks ago and thought that the action was really quite good for the price (well, excellent value in comparison to the Novus or Avant Grand models); further, the sample quality is on-par with similar price-point offerings (not quite as good as the binaural sampling on the Yamaha CLP685, but not far away).

If you purchase a sampled VST, it is unlikely that you will experience a revolution in dynamic response. Some VST's might do a slightly better job - dynamical response wise than others. Certainly they should sound quite a bit better.

Another issue is that with these multi-gigabyte libraries, the connection you get may depend upon your computer system and any audio-interface you are using.

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 361
T
Tenor1 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 361
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
You ask two questions ...
Originally Posted by Tenor1
It seems there is is a lot of discussion here regarding using available software and additional speaker systems to enhance your DP. Why is that? Even with the high-end Avantgrand models it seems common. Does the software and speakers make it that much better?
On that question ... yes, it greatly improves the sound. My piano is a POS. It needs help from virtual pianos and a sound system. And it sounds MUCH better.
But I'm hoping to replace it with a piano that will sound good without adding all the paraphernalia.

As to the first (title) question ... do most owners use extras? I'll bet that most do not, but we'll likely never know for sure.


Thanks for sharing what you do, but what is POS? Something I’ve found here in Berlin is the new Bechstein is not what I remember from many years ago. I was so set on getting a Bechstein and now it is a different instrument that I want to try some Fasioli models before making a decision.

I’ll be moving the GP-500 to another house and keep the grand in the main house, at least that is the current plan.


Recorder Player/Singer
Back to playing piano
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 361
T
Tenor1 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 361
Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
Agreed, it would be like going to a Hot Rod forum and deducing most people install high performance heads on their cars...


Exactly my thoughts.


When I was studying many years ago there was no forum like this in existence. It was students talking to other students, which was very limited. Playing the GP-500 was my first time EVER touching an electronic piano. In fact, I never even compared the Yamaha or Kawai models. I’m VERY happy with it, but it is not the same as an acoustic grand. But the Bechsteins from my youth is dramatically different from the new models I’ve tried here in Berlin. Now I’m planing a visit to Italy to try Fasioli and see what I like most. I was already going to Italy to visit some cousins.


Recorder Player/Singer
Back to playing piano
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 361
T
Tenor1 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 361
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by Tenor1
Thanks Groove On. I enjoy using headphones about 90% of the time to not bother anyone. But I've decided to get a new Bechstein grand MP 192 model. I'm in Berlin and been going to the Bechstein store trying lots of pianos. Although I enjoy the GP 500, it doesn't have the same connection for me as an actual grand piano.


Hi Tenor,

One of the reasons behind creating modeled-piano- as contrasted to sampled-piano-sound is that with modeled piano, you can get a much greater degree of dynamic control within the dynamic range of the instrument. Phil Best on YouTube explains this sentiment (he is also on Pianoworld).

The big groan about modeled piano sounds is the tone inaccuracy compared to the multi-gigabyte virtual pianos. For some, this is a bigger deal than others. For me, I noticed that e.g., Pianoteq sounds very metallic during legato playing but this characteristic is less prominent during faster more rhythmically syncopated pieces.

Of all the stage pianos I've tested over the last 10 years, the Roland V-piano has been the most responsive---giving the best connection. This modeled piano is 2009 technology, so has some tonal characteristics and other foibles that some find intolerable.. That said, I played it for an hour down in Bristol and had to pull myself away from the thing due to an appointment. However, this is not a cheap board and only really does one thing well (has very little stage piano functionality). The later Roland's (apart from the LX17) have failed to impress me during testing for various reasons. If you get the chance, maybe test a V-piano in store.

I tested the GP510 two weeks ago and thought that the action was really quite good for the price (well, excellent value in comparison to the Novus or Avant Grand models); further, the sample quality is on-par with similar price-point offerings (not quite as good as the binaural sampling on the Yamaha CLP685, but not far away).

If you purchase a sampled VST, it is unlikely that you will experience a revolution in dynamic response. Some VST's might do a slightly better job - dynamical response wise than others. Certainly they should sound quite a bit better.

Another issue is that with these multi-gigabyte libraries, the connection you get may depend upon your computer system and any audio-interface you are using.

Kind regards,

Doug.


WOW, I am so far behind in technology-lingo that I’ll need a view re-reads of everything you shared. I’m from the old school of piano playing....Sit down, open lid, bang away, lol. That was all the technology we needed, lol. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I’m actually enjoying learning what is available these days. At the last Chopin competition in 2015 a very good friend of mine gave a lecture saying in the future contestants may be playing on DP’s as well as acoustics. He got a LOT of boo’s, but he may not be far off. But saying it in the Chopin concert hall may not have been the best place to say it.


Recorder Player/Singer
Back to playing piano
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,750
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,750
Originally Posted by Tenor1

At the last Chopin competition in 2015 a very good friend of mine gave a lecture saying in the future contestants may be playing on DP’s as well as acoustics. He got a LOT of boo’s, but he may not be far off. But saying it in the Chopin concert hall may not have been the best place to say it.


While I have no doubt that many of the contestants already play on DPs regularly (for convenience/necessity), I would wonder why a premier competition would ever need to use DPs. The Chopin is one of those competitions that can have its choice of any concert grand model in the world, so they only reason they would "need" a digital would be if there was some partnership that required it. I highly doubt it would be because anyone actually preferred it to a proper concert grand.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,669
S
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,669
There are only a few things that more quickly get me out of the headspace of wanting to play music than booting up a computer.

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,087
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,087
Originally Posted by JoBert
So the impression you get here, that a large section of people use additional speakers and/or VSTis is likely not based in real world reality.
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
There are only a few things that more quickly get me out of the headspace of wanting to play music than booting up a computer.

True.

It seems a large percentage of people with the hybrid AvantGrand & Novus just play piano.

So setting up and tweaking a computer/speaker system on a standard digital piano can be a time and and money trap. It can be interesting and fun...to a point. The savings from avoiding this trap can cover a significant portion of hybrid piano cost.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
I tend to agree ... in principle.
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
There are only a few things that more quickly get me out of the headspace of wanting to play music than booting up a computer.
But the problem doesn't exist here. The computer is on nearly all the time, so there is no boot.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 469
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 469
Originally Posted by newer player

So setting up and tweaking a computer/speaker system on a standard digital piano can be a time and and money trap. It can be interesting and fun...to a point. The savings from avoiding this trap can cover a significant portion of hybrid piano cost.


This. Very true.

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,669
S
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,669
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I tend to agree ... in principle.
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
There are only a few things that more quickly get me out of the headspace of wanting to play music than booting up a computer.
But the problem doesn't exist here. The computer is on nearly all the time, so there is no boot.

One of those few things that would be the exception and lead me even faster out of the headspace of being inspired to play music would be having the computer in my studio already powered on and booted when I went in to play.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Bach Marcello Adagio Melody
by tjkane - 12/09/21 08:45 AM
1908 Knabe?
by beginagain - 12/09/21 12:54 AM
Piano lid material?
by Davdoc - 12/09/21 12:49 AM
Thoughts on Technics PR903
by McBuster - 12/09/21 12:46 AM
Kawai VPC-1 or Roland A88 MKII (or FP30X)?
by detektorosradio - 12/08/21 06:03 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,465
Posts3,151,724
Members103,566
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5