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Anyone try to disguise a suspected L-mode by careful tuning in much the same way you would a false beat??
For me on the SS-d mentioned above it was a futile effort.
And as for the volume of the noise I’d guess about 1/8 that of the unison when played, maybe a bit more.
If it wasn’t L- mode I could call it a false beat but I can usually disguise false beats with reasonable success. Not the case for these notes and it just did not sound like the typical false beat.


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Here's the Baldwin patent: Space-wrapped strings for musical instruments

"U.S. Pat. No. 3,523,480 taught that another significant factor in the design of wrapped strings is the tuning of the longitudinal mode of vibration of the string. It was found that the tone quality of the instrument could be significantly improved by careful design of the string so that the frequency of the longitudinal mode of vibration would be tuned to a particular value in relation to the transverse or flexural mode of vibration of the string."

...

"Still another beneficial application of strings made according to the present invention has to do with pianos having scales designed to have the longitudinal mode of string vibration "tuned" according to the teachings of U.S. Pat. No. 3,523,480. Accurate tuning of the longitudinal mode can be achieved by controlling the spacing between adjacent turns with the core and the wrapping wire sizes remaining the same. The present invention not only makes it possible to longitudinally tune certain strings more accurately than before, but also makes it possible to longitudinally tune the strings in certain sections of the scale where tuning was heretofore either impossible or impractical. In connection with improved longitudinal mode tuning accuracy it should be explained that, according to U.S. Pat. No. 3,523,480, tuning of the longitudinal mode of string vibration can be achieved in a piano by selecting exactly the speaking length of the plain strings or, in the case of the wrapped strings, by selecting both the speaking length of the string and the relative mass of the wrapping of each string in relation to its core wire."

Etc.

Paul.

Last edited by pyropaul; 11/27/19 05:46 PM. Reason: added more info
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if it were something inherent in the string design, one would think that it would have arisen decades before 1981.


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Originally Posted by BDB
if it were something inherent in the string design, one would think that it would have arisen decades before 1981.


One patent cited is from 1974 and another from 1956. It's clear you don't believe it. That's OK - there's many things you apparently don't believe in that others use everyday in their piano technician work.


Last edited by pyropaul; 11/27/19 05:57 PM. Reason: clarification
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Originally Posted by BDB
if it were something inherent in the string design, one would think that it would have arisen decades before 1981.

It probably did, but nothing was done about it.

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Connsidering that it would have affected every Baldwin made before this discovery, plus every other piano in the world, it either does not exist, or the effect is so small as to be negligible.


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Pianists often complain about "whistles" in wound and lower tenor strings that can be identified as L-mode. That surely makes them significant to some listeners.


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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
Pianists often complain about "whistles" in wound and lower tenor strings that can be identified as L-mode. That surely makes them significant to some listeners.

I've heard this in several new Kawai grands. It's a very distinct sound once you know what it sounds like. It's also possible that BDB has lost enough high frequency response at his age to not be able to perceive it. A lot of people think things don't exist when they can't perceive it. That's not his fault if that's the case - but it also means he can't rule out L-modes as a real phenomenon.

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Unless it is the exact same "whistle" on the exact same notes on every sample of the same model of piano, it is not due to L-mode or any other factor of the common design of a piano.


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Conklin showed at Baldwin that he could change the L-mode frequency of otherwise identical wound strings by altering the winding method slightly. That means you could have ostensibly identical models of pianos with differences in the way the wound strings sound.


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That means that normal manufacturing anomalies account for the variation in sound, not part of the design of the string. It means that his method is likely to fail for some strings, no matter how they are wound.


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I looks like you have a unique definition of manufacturing anomalie and design. Once one understands how an anomalie produces a result, it becomes design.


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If you cannot spell "anomaly," you undoubtedly have never looked up the definition.


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Originally Posted by BDB
If you cannot spell "anomaly," you undoubtedly have never looked up the definition.


He almost certainly meant "anomalies", based on the context. I'm sure you don't "believe" in L-modes anymore than you "believe" in partials (which you've stated many times you don't).

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Did the patent actually work?

I keep a spreadsheet and notes on every piano I service; the last two Baldwins I tuned prominently featured their "Synchro-Tone strings" among three or four features on the label under the lid. My service notes mentioned either poor quality or consistently badly matched bass strings in the bichord section, in particular. One was a studio, the other a console.


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Originally Posted by DoelKees



Thanks for that - searching some of the citations in that article lead me to this Are phantom partials produced in piano strings? It mentions that sum and difference tones are produced by the case of the piano (amongst other things). Very interesting!

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